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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 106 66.67%
No 53 33.33%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-23-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Canada
170 posts, read 137,361 times
Reputation: 221

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with so many of the grievance and bitterness boxes checked off.

There has to be a girl involved in there somewhere in order to achieve such a high level.
I am not bitter towards Quebec. I am glad I am from there. I speak two languages fluently, was exposed to a different culture, and have a better understanding if the world around me. I am glad I grew up in Quebec instead of Ontario or some place like that. But if someon asks if French and English Canadians hate each other, I am not going lie and say it's one big happy family. I am going to tell the truth which is that in my experience i did not find Quebec particularly welcoming to anglo Canadians.

The status quo that half of Quebec and the PLQ supports each election is a breeding ground for ethnic strife, finger pointing and social discord. Until Quebec mans up and comes into it's own right (independence) Quebec will always be the boondocks of Canadian province. Seriously, eventually people need to realize what they are doing is just making Quebec a worse place for everyone by keeping alive fears of assimilation and historical injustices. Quebec should protect its language and culture but the obvious way to do it is independence, instead Quebec chose a ridiculous middle ground where Quebec has ceased development and is stuck in 1995.
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:19 PM
 
1 posts, read 772 times
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America should just annex Canada

problem solved
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:23 PM
 
261 posts, read 203,185 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I hope to give a longer answer maybe later tonight or tomorrow, but generally speaking the young kids (kids, preteens and teens) seem to see French in Quebec as a fait-accompli. It's not something most would feel passionate about defending, I suspect, but on the other and the idea of not having it as the main language would seem unnatural. In a sense, it's almost like the way anglophones feel about language. Or maybe more accurately how people in the Netherlands or Denmark do.

This also appears to be true of kids of other origins. French is the natural language for all of them to use when socializing, etc. None of them complain that it would have been better to go to English school for example. Even the vast majority of kids who are of franco-anglo marriages that I know have French as the go-to language for their friendships, etc. They may include the odd expression in English (''as if!" "gimme a break!'') but generally speaking they interact in French even if their English can often be very good.

As for being attracted to English sure it's there. Especially popular music. As kids get older there is on the part of some (but not all) an educational and career interest with respect to English.

I am not sure if it's really much different from what you have in places like Scandinavia TBQH.

As I said, I do see interest in English among young people, but it's very much a second language and supplementary cultural thing as opposed to an eagerness to replace one's native language with it.
I really want to read your longer answer, Acajack, because that's quite interesting and it may help us understand what Quebec will look like in a couple of decades. I was especially curious to know what language they speak on the school grounds but outside class, and after school. If it's French, then it suggests that they do view it as the common language of Quebec, not just the language of their in-group. I'll contrast this with Hispanics in the US, who while probably speaking Spanish amongst themselves, would spontaneously speak English with any outsider, and might even refuse to speak Spanish with them.

As for me, one thing I often look at is the language in which my Facebook friends post updates. I've noticed that unless they're writing for an international audience (i.e. they intend to reach their friends in many countries), they tend to use their own language: the Poles write in Polish, the French in French, the Brazilians in Portuguese, the Austrians in German, the Serbians in Serbian, etc. Francophone Quebecers are an interesting case, since it tends to vary. I've got a (Facebook as well as personal) friend in Gatineau who seems to use one or the other language, and I'm not always sure what the deciding factor is. I assume it's who among his friends he believes will find the post more interesting. But he's got a (unilingual anglophone) friend who tends to take his French updates, run them through Google Translate, and post the results. That's also interesting behaviour.

Franco-Ontarians almost invariably post on Facebook in English. I've even seen a Franco-Ontarian respond to a post by another Franco-Ontarian about a baby's birth by congratulating them in English. I also have Facebook friends who, while being francophones and from Quebec, live their life, both professional and personal, mostly in English. Those tend to move to Ottawa, and like Franco-Ontarians post almost invariably in English.

Your comment about French school is also interesting. I've heard before, usually from anglophones, the argument that restrictions on English school in Quebec should be abolished. The argument is usually that francophones (and presumably allophones as well) want to learn good English, since it's an important skill, but cannot do this by studying in a French school. So we need to open English schools to them as well. I suspect that part of the argument is also that English school boards feel the need for a bigger basin of users in order to ensure their future. But it seems that there isn't that much of a movement from users of the French system to be allowed access to the English one as well.

And if to young francophone Quebecers it's just natural for French to be spoken, then I assume they also take it for granted that they'll be served in French in both the public and private sector. Maybe they would not complain if, for example, they went to a shop and the cashier did not speak to them in French. But if ever their old mother needed to go to the hospital or to a long-term care centre, I would guess that they would definitely expect the staff to speak with her in French.
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,951 posts, read 27,371,773 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
I really want to read your longer answer, Acajack, because that's quite interesting and it may help us understand what Quebec will look like in a couple of decades. I was especially curious to know what language they speak on the school grounds but outside class, and after school. If it's French, then it suggests that they do view it as the common language of Quebec, not just the language of their in-group. I'll contrast this with Hispanics in the US, who while probably speaking Spanish amongst themselves, would spontaneously speak English with any outsider, and might even refuse to speak Spanish with them.

.
My kids and their friends speak French between themselves and on the streets I would assume 99.99% of the time. French is overwhelmingly the main language of the district where I live and we're about 10 km from downtown Ottawa. You can actually see the parliament buildings from some parts of the district as we are up on a hill. Even the handful of kids who go to English language schools speak (accented) French when playing with their friends on the street. Keep in a mind a lot of kids don't even speak English that well or at all. Some immigrant kids speak Arabic and French, or Haitian Creole and French, or Spanish and French, but not English. I also have my kids in activities (based in Hull) and the kids from there regardless of origin are also very French dominant.

I have one child old enough for Facebook and it typically goes like this:

- Tu fais quoi?
- Pas grand chose
- On va tu voir un film?
- C koi tu vx voir?
- Shé pas... Astérix?
- No way, c'est plate. Dansez dans les rues?
- OK ptêtre
- Pquoi té pas sur?
- Ouin ouin ça va.
- On se voit la-bas?
- Cool.
- Luv u
- Moi aussi
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,951 posts, read 27,371,773 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post

As for me, one thing I often look at is the language in which my Facebook friends post updates. I've noticed that unless they're writing for an international audience (i.e. they intend to reach their friends in many countries), they tend to use their own language: the Poles write in Polish, the French in French, the Brazilians in Portuguese, the Austrians in German, the Serbians in Serbian, etc. Francophone Quebecers are an interesting case, since it tends to vary. I've got a (Facebook as well as personal) friend in Gatineau who seems to use one or the other language, and I'm not always sure what the deciding factor is. I assume it's who among his friends he believes will find the post more interesting. But he's got a (unilingual anglophone) friend who tends to take his French updates, run them through Google Translate, and post the results. That's also interesting behaviour.

Franco-Ontarians almost invariably post on Facebook in English. I've even seen a Franco-Ontarian respond to a post by another Franco-Ontarian about a baby's birth by congratulating them in English. I also have Facebook friends who, while being francophones and from Quebec, live their life, both professional and personal, mostly in English. Those tend to move to Ottawa, and like Franco-Ontarians post almost invariably in English.

.
I have one or two people from Gatineau who also do that - predominantly post on Facebook in English. One is actually a card-carrying PQ member which is weird.

My other Gatineau friends all post very predominantly in French. I am talking about close to 100 people.

My Franco-Ontarian friends as you say post in English most of the time. Some actually make a special effort and post everything bilingually like the Government of Canada! And I mean everything.

But generally it's in English. Even the FB group for a reunion bash for a francophone high school in Ontario I went to for some years is entirely in English and so are all of the posts!
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Old 02-23-2015, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Nation du Québec
237 posts, read 185,929 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I have one or two people from Gatineau who also do that - predominantly post on Facebook in English. One is actually a card-carrying PQ member which is weird.

My other Gatineau friends all post very predominantly in French. I am talking about close to 100 people.

My Franco-Ontarian friends as you say post in English most of the time. Some actually make a special effort and post everything bilingually like the Government of Canada! And I mean everything.

But generally it's in English. Even the FB group for a reunion bash for a francophone high school in Ontario I went to for some years is entirely in English and so are all of the posts!
I respect you experiences, however I think it is altered by the culture in Gatineau. Gatineau attracts a certain type of resident who prefers to live in French yet is also a staunch federalism supporter. I think it is variable in Gatineau and Montréal regions.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,951 posts, read 27,371,773 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
I respect you experiences, however I think it is altered by the culture in Gatineau. Gatineau attracts a certain type of resident who prefers to live in French yet is also a staunch federalism supporter. I think it is variable in Gatineau and Montréal regions.
I don't understand.
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,951 posts, read 27,371,773 times
Reputation: 8612
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

The president of Iceland was in Quebec City today. He spoke about the positive aspects of national independence, in spite of the fact he wasn't there to talk about that at all. Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard played it cool but I am sure that he wasn't pleased at all to have the guy sharing the stage with him say that.

BTW I could not find an article in English for you guys. Typical of the selective media coverage we often see in Canada.

De passage à Québec, le président de l'Islande parle indépendance | Patrice Bergeron | Politique québécoise
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Nation du Québec
237 posts, read 185,929 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

The president of Iceland was in Quebec City today. He spoke about the positive aspects of national independence, in spite of the fact he wasn't there to talk about that at all. Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard played it cool but I am sure that he wasn't pleased at all to have the guy sharing the stage with him say that.

BTW I could not find an article in English for you guys. Typical of the selective media coverage we often see in Canada.

De passage à Québec, le président de l'Islande parle indépendance | Patrice Bergeron | Politique québécoise
Iceland knows something about being independent. They broke off from Danish rule and are so much better off independent. Comparisons have been made with Iceland and Newfoundland. These comparisons show why Newfoundland is worse off as part of Canada because of the federal government, while Iceland benefits from it's own independence.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,951 posts, read 27,371,773 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
Iceland knows something about being independent. They broke off from Danish rule and are so much better off independent. Comparisons have been made with Iceland and Newfoundland. These comparisons show why Newfoundland is worse off as part of Canada because of the federal government, while Iceland benefits from it's own independence.
I have heard this too.

On the other hand, the federalist people have also pointed out that when Iceland went through its financial meltdown just a few years ago, it would have benefited from being part of a larger entity capable of taking big hits and spreading the pain and even providing bailouts, as opposed to suffering all by itself.
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