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Old 12-15-2014, 02:42 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,287 posts, read 6,607,347 times
Reputation: 14327

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
There's never been a time when anyone of any religion in Canada has "[done] whatever [they] want and hide behind the guise of your actions being religious. In fact, when it comes to Christianity, many things that secular society considers acceptable, traditionally have been considered sins or frowned upon by most denominations to one degree or another. It's funny, though, that you would appeal to people behaving "within the confines of the law" - people who engage in various deviant behaviors have been trying to systematically change the laws to make their actions "legal". So you expect religions to abide strictly by the supposedly "secular" laws, yet have no problem with deviants flagrantly breaking them. Explain that double standard...
Real deviancy means going against what is socially acceptable or going against the norm. I guess you approve of the scandalously deviant shenanigans going on in Bountiful then?

Charges have been laid against the so-called Christian religious leaders of multiple marriages, cross border child trafficking of little girls for the purpose of marriage to old men, multiple child marriages, sexual abuse and their women and girls being isolated and brain-washed all in the name of religious freedom. Even other ethical Christian churches across Canada as well as the Mormon church in USA have spoken out against the problems in Bountiful and the Mormon Church is suing the religious leaders of Bountiful.

Charges laid against Bountiful leader Winston Blackmore after judge rules Charter should not protect polygamists | National Post

The problem with Bountiful - The United Church Observer

Bountiful, British Columbia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 12-15-2014, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,778,861 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
There's never been a time when anyone of any religion in Canada has "[done] whatever [they] want and hide behind the guise of your actions being religious. In fact, when it comes to Christianity, many things that secular society considers acceptable, traditionally have been considered sins or frowned upon by most denominations to one degree or another. It's funny, though, that you would appeal to people behaving "within the confines of the law" - people who engage in various deviant behaviors have been trying to systematically change the laws to make their actions "legal". So you expect religions to abide strictly by the supposedly "secular" laws, yet have no problem with deviants flagrantly breaking them. Explain that double standard...
There you have it. Your issue isn't the misbelief that Christians are being persecuted. Your issue is that everyone does't follow YOUR religion and that YOUR religion isn't the law.

You are obviously not for democracy and the rights other have in NOT believing in your brand of Christianity.
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,602 posts, read 11,098,771 times
Reputation: 10319
Ken, sodomy and buggery haven't been criminal offences for nearly a generation. You're a little late to the outrage party.

Come over here and sit on Santa's lap and tell me what this is really about...
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:15 PM
 
3 posts, read 1,936 times
Reputation: 10
But Ken - the point is that you can't pick and choose which sins offend you and which ones don't. Why would anyone feel that enetering into a loving same-sex relationship is reprehensible whereas other biblical sins (adultery etc) can safely be ignored? For this is surely what the College is doing by focusing on this one area. Logical inference: someone in that college is allowing their personal prejudice to come out. It's not 'biblical' - as otherwise all the other legal sins would have to be included in the list.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,179 posts, read 1,757,746 times
Reputation: 2652
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiepasty View Post
But Ken - the point is that you can't pick and choose which sins offend you and which ones don't. Why would anyone feel that enetering into a loving same-sex relationship is reprehensible whereas other biblical sins (adultery etc) can safely be ignored? For this is surely what the College is doing by focusing on this one area. Logical inference: someone in that college is allowing their personal prejudice to come out. It's not 'biblical' - as otherwise all the other legal sins would have to be included in the list.
I won't say that Trinity Western University (TWU) is focusing on one area; rather, that that area is where much of the controversy is coming from.

As a graduate of an accredited Canadian law school, I can say that much of what is in the course of study of law in Canada would be abhorrent to fundamentalist Christians, and the thought that fundamentalist Christians would have to argue a side that they find morally repugnant would cause me to look askance at their arguments. How would graduates of such a school defend a drunk who rapes a wheelchair-bound senior citizen (R. v. Daviault, [1994] 3 S.C.R. 63), or a suspected grow-op charged only on the basis of an infrrared photo (R. v. Tessling [2004] 3 S.C.R. 432)? Or, for that matter, prosecuting the lawsuit brought by a gay teacher fired from a Christian school, just for being gay (Vriend v. Alberta [1998] 1 S.C.R. 493)?

In all of these cases, we studied both sides of the argument, and we looked at how the trial and appellate courts arrived at their decision. (Note that all above cited cases are Supreme Court of Canada decisions, which means that each went through a provincial trial and provincial appellate court.) We learned how to put our personal views aside, and examine the issues neutrally. True, for the purposes of education, we occasionally had to take one side or the other, and research and argue it in front of a panel. But how would a Christian law school teach these, and other such, cases? What spin might it put on them? And how well could its graduates argue a point that was morally repugnant to them?

In my career, I've defended drug dealers, shoplifters, drunk drivers, bar-fighters, and at least one "kiddie-diddler." I always do so from a point where my own feelings or morality do not or cannot interfere. This, I am sure, is due to my education at a non-religious, politically-neutral law school.

Will TWU provide its law graduates with the same experience that I had?

Last edited by ChevySpoons; 12-16-2014 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,778,861 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
I won't say that Trinity Western University (TWU) is focusing on one area; rather, that that area is where much of the controversy is coming from.

As a graduate of an accredited Canadian law school, I can say that much of what is in the course of study of law in Canada would be abhorrent to fundamentalist Christians, and the thought that fundamentalist Christians would have to argue a side that they find morally repugnant would cause me to look askance at their arguments. How would graduates of such a school defend a drunk who rapes a wheelchair-bound senior citizen (R. v. Daviault, [1994] 3 S.C.R. 63), or a suspected grow-op charged only on the basis of an infrrared photo (R. v. Tessling [2004] 3 S.C.R. 432)? Or, for that matter, prosecuting the lawsuit brought by a gay teacher fired from a Christian school, just for being gay (Vriend v. Alberta [1998] 1 S.C.R. 493)?

In all of these cases, we studied both sides of the argument, and we looked at how the trial and appellate courts arrived at their decision. (Note that all above cited cases are Supreme Court of Canada decisions, which means that each went through a provincial trial and provincial appellate court.) We learned how to put our personal views aside, and examine the issues neutrally. True, for the purposes of education, we occasionally had to take one side or the other, and research and argue it in front of a panel. But how would a Christian law school teach these, and other such, cases? What spin might it put on them? And how well could its graduates argue a point that was morally repugnant to them?

In my career, I've defended drug dealers, shoplifters, drunk drivers, bar-fighters, and at least one "kiddie-diddler." I always do so from a point where my own feelings or morality do not or cannot interfere. This, I am sure, is due to my education at a non-religious, politically-neutral law school.

Will TWU provide its law graduates with the same experience that I had?
Good post
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:45 PM
 
39 posts, read 41,085 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
In my career, I've defended drug dealers, shoplifters, drunk drivers, bar-fighters, and at least one "kiddie-diddler."
Wow, a real stand up kind of guy.
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Old 12-17-2014, 07:20 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,287 posts, read 6,607,347 times
Reputation: 14327
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrycarver View Post
Wow, a real stand up kind of guy.
It's a dirty job but somebody's gotta do it.

For what it's worth I think your comment is a dirty cheap shot below the belt because you already know that everybody charged with a crime has a right to representation.

Just remember that one day even you might need somebody to defend you for some crime that you're charged with. Hopefully you'll get a real stand up kind of guy defending you even though with your kind of attitude you wouldn't deserve it.

.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,778,861 times
Reputation: 7319
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrycarver View Post
Wow, a real stand up kind of guy.
Hey leave our Chevy alone. From what I can tell from his posting history he IS an upstanding guy.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,179 posts, read 1,757,746 times
Reputation: 2652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
It's a dirty job but somebody's gotta do it.
Exactly. Our legal system allows the right of representation, so I represent. We also allow "innocent until proven guilty," which means that when I take a matter on, I'm not dealing with proven drunk drivers, drug dealers, etc. Rather, I am dealing with those who are alleged to be such when matters go to court. Perhaps a minor difference, but an important one.

Appreciate your comments, Zoisite and Natnasci. I'd rep you both, but apparently, I cannot. Still, I will say "thank you" for your remarks.
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