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Old 01-03-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,392 posts, read 1,275,413 times
Reputation: 936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't know if there is any other way to put this than I think you're views about what you think 'Canadians' want are about as separate from reality as possible.. The sociological analysis is actually kind of bizarre really.. What you draw from what you are 'seeing' and hearing are largely hysterical..
So fearmongering and America bashing aren't common in Canada is what you are saying? So if I go over to the Quebec Separatism thread and look at all your posts about "having to deal with the elephant" that wasn't fearmongering and America bashing? Yeah okay.

Quote:
As a matter of fact the more extreme views that you see or here which would be a closer or more distant relationship are just that extreme... If opening up trade with other countries is seen as wanting a 'more' distant relationship well keystone is actually an example of the U.S sort of pushing us away if you will.. Same thing with that Buy American clause you guys have and more protectionist trade policies so sure we are going to spread our wings when it comes to trade - why shouldn't we but we still trade heaps with you guys so overall all is good.. Isn't it? What's your beef exactly I still don't get you schtick..
Geography is destiny in regards to trade for the most part and especially in the Canada United States relationship. Regardless of how many trade deals Canada does with other countries it's main trading partner is still going to be the United States at the end of the day...regardless whether Canadians like that or not.

As far as my schtick goes it's calling bs when I see it that is my stick.

Quote:
I personally don't openly hate the U.S at all just because I don't want the Canadian/U.S borders redrawn.. I think you'll find that most Canadians share the same view, we value the current relationship the way it is but we like the country we have built from everything to labour laws to Universal H/C and other things in between. Not sure what else there is to say about it to be honest.
Personally I tend not to care if the United States gets closer or more distant from Canada because it won't affect me much either way and that is the view of most Americans. As far as the Canadian view goes it can be quite two faced and hypocritical in regards to the United States. Essentially you want all the benefits if your were states in the union while being an independent country. Canadians get angry that they don't get much attention from the US while bashing it in your media (which is probably a good thing Canada doesn't get much attention from the United States). Canadians go on and on about not being as racist as the United States yet has a lot less minorities than the United States and no majority non white cities. Canadians also go on about being more tolerant of religion then the US yet you ban burqa's and heavily favor Catholicism and have no true separation of church and state.

So to put it bluntly my bs meter goes off and I comment to get people to take off the rose tinted glasses.

 
Old 01-03-2015, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,133,432 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
So fearmongering and America bashing aren't common in Canada is what you are saying? So if I go over to the Quebec Separatism thread and look at all your posts about "having to deal with the elephant" that wasn't fearmongering and America bashing? Yeah okay.



Geography is destiny in regards to trade for the most part and especially in the Canada United States relationship. Regardless of how many trade deals Canada does with other countries it's main trading partner is still going to be the United States at the end of the day...regardless whether Canadians like that or not.

As far as my schtick goes it's calling bs when I see it that is my stick.



Personally I tend not to care if the United States gets closer or more distant from Canada because it won't affect me much either way and that is the view of most Americans. As far as the Canadian view goes it can be quite two faced and hypocritical in regards to the United States. Essentially you want all the benefits if your were states in the union while being an independent country. Canadians get angry that they don't get much attention from the US while bashing it in your media (which is probably a good thing Canada doesn't get much attention from the United States). Canadians go on and on about not being as racist as the United States yet has a lot less minorities than the United States and no majority non white cities. Canadians also go on about being more tolerant of religion then the US yet you ban burqa's and heavily favor Catholicism and have no true separation of church and state.

So to put it bluntly my bs meter goes off and I comment to get people to take off the rose tinted glasses.
I don't see making a remark about dealing with a nation that is 10 times your size that borders you as fear mongering.. There are challenges that any country bordering another faces - for Canada that is simply dealing with a country that is ten times our size - Trudeau said that and in context, I don't think he was fear mongering or hated the U.S either. It is true, Quebec or Ontario or Alberta etc would need to deal with that dynamic as separate countries.. Fear mongering no - reality yes. A reality we have come to live with and are fine with as long as we all play nicely in the sandbox.. You on the otherhand seem to pride yourself on having this crystal clear view of U.S/Canada relations and I really don't think you do.. I think your views are actually extremist and don't bode well for a good relationship. Its called unnecessary aggravation..

Look at GregW's posts... I think he is an American that most Canadians relate to and get along with. His views are typically more what we actually experience in real life as opposed to someone who seems to have developed this jaded and extreme view of Canada and Canadians that with all due respect is largely delusional.. I guess B.S is a relative thing lol..

Anyway - take a gander at the link below. I think you see the relationship in a rather one sided way to be honest with a comment like you want all the benefits of being in the U.S.. You have a certain ego about your posts.... Truth is - We both benefit from our relationship with one another from trade to intelligence to defense.. Why you need to just make it a Canada relies on the U.S thing I think is rooted in EGO and for some immature reason wanting to display who is boss! Plain and simple.. Its EGOTISTICAL to the max.

"The Canada-United States trade relationship is an example of how partners can benefit from opening their borders to trade. Canada and the United States have long shared the largest bilateral trade relationship in the world. In 2010, bilateral trade reached $645.7 billion, representing some $1.8 billion worth of goods and services crossing the border every day (approximately $1.2 million a minute). One in seven Canadian jobs depend on trade with the United-States. Over eight million US jobs depend on trade with Canada.
Of the 50 U.S. states, 35 count Canada as their number one export market, with Canada ranking in the top three export markets for a further 12 states. Over 4,500 Canadian-owned businesses in 17,000 U.S. locations employ more than 568,000 Americans."

Bilateral Relations: Canada-U.S. Trade and Investment | Canada's Economic Action Plan

Sure geography is a big part and sure it makes sense that Canada and the U.S will always depend on one another.. You're getting into this you need us more than we need you B.S.. That type of talk only aggravates things in a relationship that benefits both imo. I think its more than just trade though... I think we proved that to our American friends during 9/11... I personally dealt with that at the time working at Pearson International Airport. We had 30 U.S flagged wide bodied flights diverted to our airport and we handled them graciously and with respect. Sometimes people forget those things.

I get it - you don't like Canada or Canadians.. I personally think at its root has something to do with our historical links to the U.K and ego? Not much I can do about that than to say I think seeing things through a narrow lens but it is what it is.. If everyone in the U.S shared your views and every Canadian was as extreme as you profess, than I guess we'd have to revisit the relationship.. Fortunately, I think that your views and the extreme views of Canadians are in the minority. The GregW's are the majority...

Last edited by fusion2; 01-03-2015 at 03:05 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2015, 05:07 PM
 
342 posts, read 394,970 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
Personally I tend not to care if the United States gets closer or more distant from Canada because it won't affect me much either way and that is the view of most Americans. As far as the Canadian view goes it can be quite two faced and hypocritical in regards to the United States. Essentially you want all the benefits if your were states in the union while being an independent country. Canadians get angry that they don't get much attention from the US while bashing it in your media (which is probably a good thing Canada doesn't get much attention from the United States). Canadians go on and on about not being as racist as the United States yet has a lot less minorities than the United States and no majority non white cities. Canadians also go on about being more tolerant of religion then the US yet you ban burqa's and heavily favor Catholicism and have no true separation of church and state.

So to put it bluntly my bs meter goes off and I comment to get people to take off the rose tinted glasses.
I couldnt have said it better.
 
Old 01-03-2015, 07:06 PM
 
18,265 posts, read 10,366,114 times
Reputation: 13321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeMike91 View Post
I couldnt have said it better.
That goes without saying; being of a like mind and everything.

Problem is; it's pure bullcrap.

Canadians don't get angry at a lack of attention from America, they get angry at incorrect attention. We'd be happy if you'd just shut up about Canada instead of constantly portraying us as the country needing your military protection and allowing terrorists entry into the U.S. or saying aboot instead of about.

Canada by any measurement you can find, used by any intelligent person of reason, is in no way as racist as the U.S. and that is a FACT!

"Less minorities than the United States" what buffoonery, and you jump on to agree with him/her.

Immigration and Ethnocultural Diversity in Canada

Population is 20% immigrant, the highest figure of all other G8 nations. Fully 19.6 percent are VISIBLE MINORITIES! Over 200 ethnicities self reported.

Given the fact that it is predominantly younger African Americans you are presently dealing with riots and looting and trashing their home towns in protest of racist behaviour by Cops; the little inconvenient truth of Canada's immigration in the last five years being represented by a group younger than 14 measuring over 19% of all immigration with the age 15 to 24 measuring another 15% with over 12 % of over all immigration coming from AFRICA! that would indicate to anyone with a functioning brain cell that the group currently feeling dis-enfranchised within your supposed utopia is the very group NOT suffering the same indicators in Canada. Ergo less experienced racism of same demographic in Canada than experienced in the basement.

I find it more than passing strange that while accusing Canada of racism a reference is made to "majority non-white cities" as a justification for overt racism existing in the U.S. The mere mentioning of that is racist in the extreme or hadn't you noticed?

Were we to be anywhere near as racist as the U.S., with that high a proportion of our population being represented by visible minorities of a like age group, there'd be blood running in the streets and you boobs know it. Cripes!
 
Old 01-03-2015, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,392 posts, read 1,275,413 times
Reputation: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't see making a remark about dealing with a nation that is 10 times your size that borders you as fear mongering.. There are challenges that any country bordering another faces - for Canada that is simply dealing with a country that is ten times our size - Trudeau said that and in context, I don't think he was fear mongering or hated the U.S either. It is true, Quebec or Ontario or Alberta etc would need to deal with that dynamic as separate countries.. Fear mongering no - reality yes. A reality we have come to live with and are fine with as long as we all play nicely in the sandbox..
It was obvious fear mongering and America bashing you were doing for several pages on the other topic. Every Quebecer kept pointing that out to you with you ignoring them and just going on and on. Trudeau was not really a fan of the US that is pretty widely known by Canadians and others who have studied him.

Quote:
You on the otherhand seem to pride yourself on having this crystal clear view of U.S/Canada relations and I really don't think you do..
I think I have a non rose tinted glasses view of Canada and the United States relationship really is with it.

Quote:
I think your views are actually extremist and don't bode well for a good relationship. Its called unnecessary aggravation..
What extremism? What me stating the US could very well turn down an opportunity to absorb Canada if given the chance? Isn't that essentially what you are really getting at? That Canada is the greatest thing ever and that the United States would never turn down the chance to claim it regardless of the circumstances. Even with me listing reasons why the US could very well say no. If anything I think you have the extremist view on the matter since we've gone on for several pages now with me pointing out that Canada is not perfect (no nation is) and the United States doesn't secretly desire to take over Canada.

Quote:
Look at GregW's posts... I think he is an American that most Canadians relate to and get along with. His views are typically more what we actually experience in real life as opposed to someone who seems to have developed this jaded and extreme view of Canada and Canadians that with all due respect is largely delusional.. I guess B.S is a relative thing lol..
Really? So since my views don't match what the typical politically correct Canadian views are I most be an extremist? I could care less about a consensus view since my views became what they are through actually dealing with Canadians. As the saying my friend told me years ago "Canadians are very malevolently informed about the United States where as the United States is very benevolently uniformed about Canada." Once you get more informed about Canada as an American the Canadian image of being this great tolerant country disintegrates very quickly.

Quote:
You have a certain ego about your posts....
My ego is I have no problem calling bs.

Quote:
You're getting into this you need us more than we need you B.S.. That type of talk only aggravates things in a relationship that benefits both imo.
In reality it's true though whether it angers Canadians or not. The relationship is not one of equals nor will it probably ever be. Canada is a middle power, with no ability to project hard power, whose economy is severely tied to the United States. Where as the United States is currently still a hyperpower (something rarely achieved throughout history), the United States economy is 20-25% of global GDP, and is able to project power anywhere in the world. Sorry but were not equals. This isn't me saying Canada is worthless it's me saying the relationship between the United States and Canada is not that of equals.
Quote:
I get it - you don't like Canada or Canadians..
Depends on the Canadian if I will get along or not with him or her.
 
Old 01-03-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,392 posts, read 1,275,413 times
Reputation: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
That goes without saying; being of a like mind and everything.

Problem is; it's pure bullcrap.

Canadians don't get angry at a lack of attention from America, they get angry at incorrect attention. We'd be happy if you'd just shut up about Canada instead of constantly portraying us as the country needing your military protection and allowing terrorists entry into the U.S. or saying aboot instead of about.

Canada by any measurement you can find, used by any intelligent person of reason, is in no way as racist as the U.S. and that is a FACT!
Way to show your tolerance there.

Quote:
"Less minorities than the United States" what buffoonery, and you jump on to agree with him/her.

Immigration and Ethnocultural Diversity in Canada

Population is 20% immigrant, the highest figure of all other G8 nations. Fully 19.6 percent are VISIBLE MINORITIES! Over 200 ethnicities self reported.
Yet you have no majority non white cities. There are more African Americans in the United States then there are Canadians. You have a higher percentage of Asian Canadians 15.3% then Asian Americans 5.3% in the US although there are more Asians in the United States (18,205,898) then in Canada (5,011,225). On the other hand you have hardly any hispanics at all in Canada (544,380) where as the United States has (53,986,412).

Quote:
the little inconvenient truth of Canada's immigration in the last five years being represented by a group younger than 14 measuring over 19% of all immigration with the age 15 to 24 measuring another 15% with over 12 % of over all immigration coming from AFRICA! that would indicate to anyone with a functioning brain cell that the group currently feeling dis-enfranchised within your supposed utopia is the very group NOT suffering the same indicators in Canada. Ergo less experienced racism of same demographic in Canada than experienced in the basement.
Actually it just proves you don't do a quick google search to make sure your claims are correct. African immigrants to the United States actually outperform every other group in the United States right now. If anything they can be said to be the "model minority" although it's wrong to label a group that since it does stereotype them.

Quote:
I find it more than passing strange that while accusing Canada of racism a reference is made to "majority non-white cities" as a justification for overt racism existing in the U.S. The mere mentioning of that is racist in the extreme or hadn't you noticed?
What I find strange is the extreme dismissive nature of Canadians when talking about race relations. You all really don't like talking about the issue unless it's to say "we are not racists like Americans".

Quote:
Were we to be anywhere near as racist as the U.S.,
Further proving my point.

Quote:
with that high a proportion of our population being represented by visible minorities of a like age group, there'd be blood running in the streets and you boobs know it. Cripes!
You all are really out of touch when it comes to race relations in the United States and have a very rose tinted view of race relations in Canada.
 
Old 01-03-2015, 08:01 PM
 
18,265 posts, read 10,366,114 times
Reputation: 13321
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
Way to show your tolerance there.



Yet you have no majority non white cities. There are more African Americans in the United States then there are Canadians. You have a higher percentage of Asian Canadians 15.3% then Asian Americans 5.3% in the US although there are more Asians in the United States (18,205,898) then in Canada (5,011,225). On the other hand you have hardly any hispanics at all in Canada (544,380) where as the United States has (53,986,412).



Actually it just proves you don't do a quick google search to make sure your claims are correct. African immigrants to the United States actually outperform every other group in the United States right now. If anything they can be said to be the "model minority" although it's wrong to label a group that since it does stereotype them.



What I find strange is the extreme dismissive nature of Canadians when talking about race relations. You all really don't like talking about the issue unless it's to say "we are not racists like Americans".



Further proving my point.



You all are really out of touch when it comes to race relations between in both countries.
Once again you've made an accusation and then ignore your error in your response to a rebuttal completely glossing over proportional per-capita numbers. How dismissive was that?

I was not the one who said Canada had no minority groups. I was not the one who introduced racism into the thread with "Canada is more racist than America". I was not the one who mentioned non-white cities in a stereotypical racist manner.

American young blacks are rioting, Canadian young blacks are not.

What you should find strange is your needing to describe any rebuttal as dismissive to lend credence to your silly assertions. "No majority non-white" cities is a fairly dismissive position regarding racism.

"You all are really out of touch when it comes to race relations between in both countries." The very best that can be said about this is: pot meet kettle. You haven't been watching your own news for the last couple of years, especially the last few months have you? An unprejudiced authority on the topic you are not.
 
Old 01-03-2015, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,392 posts, read 1,275,413 times
Reputation: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I was not the one who said Canada had no minority groups.
Please point out where I said Canada has no minority groups.

Quote:
I was not the one who introduced racism into the thread with "Canada is more racist than America".
Actually the whole discussion of race started with Canadiangirll claiming the US was extremely racist.

Quote:
I was not the one who mentioned non-white cities in a stereotypical racist manner.
It's been brought up repeatedly because it's a major difference between both nations.

Quote:
American young blacks are rioting, Canadian young blacks are not.
You hardly have the amount of blacks the United States has. Something you seem to be glossing over regularly.

Quote:
What you should find strange is your needing to describe any rebuttal as dismissive to lend credence to your silly assertions.
Isn't that what you've been doing this whole time?

Quote:
"No majority non-white" cities is a fairly dismissive position regarding racism.
It's a major difference between both nations.

Quote:
"You all are really out of touch when it comes to race relations between in both countries." The very best that can be said about this is: pot meet kettle. You haven't been watching your own news for the last couple of years, especially the last few months have you? An unprejudiced authority on the topic you are not.
I saw of a thug that got shot by police officers after he was smoking pot all day, robbed a convenience store, and telling an officer to **** off and then assaulted him and got shot over that. Not shedding a tear and the issue got overblown by the media. One thing I will say though is that in the US we at least talked about this where as in Canada you tend not to talk at all about race relations. The talking about race relations is a major difference between the United States and Canada. In the US if there is perceived racism it will be talked about in Canada that just doesn't happen.

Last edited by cwa1984; 01-03-2015 at 09:20 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2015, 08:49 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,901,398 times
Reputation: 18049
Americans is a term that hardly applies on this subject;IMO. The regional difference within US are huge really. They are as different has European nations really.
 
Old 01-04-2015, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,133,432 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post

In reality it's true though whether it angers Canadians or not. The relationship is not one of equals nor will it probably ever be. Canada is a middle power, with no ability to project hard power, whose economy is severely tied to the United States. Where as the United States is currently still a hyperpower (something rarely achieved throughout history), the United States economy is 20-25% of global GDP, and is able to project power anywhere in the world. Sorry but were not equals. This isn't me saying Canada is worthless it's me saying the relationship between the United States and Canada is not that of equals.


Depends on the Canadian if I will get along or not with him or her.
Well what do you think would happen to the U.S economy if it didn't trade with anyone because it felt that there were no 'equals' and as such it is just too good for everyone else..The way you sort of personify the U.S - Its almost like equating it with the buff/tall guy who can't take his eyes... off himself in the mirror.. You know, starts flexing his muscles and smiles at how good looking he thinks he is, how buff he is, perfect tan - pearly whites ya know.. Nobody is good enough for him lol....

Let me ask you.. If you were the leader of Canada and had the power to control the relationship with the U.S absolutely - how would you engage with the U.S on matters of Trade, Defense, Intelligence and any other matters that you feel the need to address.. How would you make Canada your perfect neighbour - enlighten us... stud!
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