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View Poll Results: Is Canada better without Quebec?
Yes, Canada is better off without Quebec 55 41.67%
No, Canada is better off with Quebec 77 58.33%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2015, 12:24 PM
 
1,316 posts, read 2,031,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
If you were to ask most people east of the Manitoba border I bet most would rather see Alberta leave before Quebec does.
If you were to ask some of the angry anti-everything folks living in Toronto and Montreal or the people whose factory jobs relied on Canada being thought such an economic basket case and sufficiently risky that we had a 63¢ dollar, then you may have a point. I doubt that sensibly-minded people in other parts of Central and Eastern Canada, people who really understand the value of Alberta and the prosperity its economic engine delivers to the rest of the country, would express the kind of opinion you have suggested.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
If you were to ask some of the angry anti-everything folks living in Toronto and Montreal or the people whose factory jobs relied on Canada being thought such an economic basket case and sufficiently risky that we had a 63¢ dollar, then you may have a point. I doubt that sensibly-minded people in other parts of Central and Eastern Canada, people who really understand the value of Alberta and the prosperity its economic engine delivers to the rest of the country, would express the kind of opinion you have suggested.
Still trying to find out who those anti-everything folks in Toronto are... Haven't found them yet but when I find them i'll let you know, going out now so will continue the search!....

Canada as a whole would be better off it it started focusing on innovation... Our resources will only get us so far and the fluctuations in the price of some of them is very unsettling, not just for a region but the nation as a whole...

We are really good at finger pointing and guilt tripping though... Must give us that!

Last edited by fusion2; 02-14-2015 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Nation du Québec
237 posts, read 185,662 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Hello, ChevySpoons. First I would like to thank you for taking the time to write such an eloquent response. It is invigorating to see that some still hold the Canadian constitution in such high regard. It appears we both have a background in law; I studied at Université de Montréal, Simon Fraser, and McGill. I look forward to exchanging ideas with you. A fascinating perspective, albeit flawed. We are not the United States of America, nor are we the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Canada's constitutional history is shallow and if we are being honest with ourselves, relatively unstable. When dealing with Quebec the Canadian constitution has revealed itself to be a flimsy device. In Quebec we have a discovered the mother of all trump cards. It is the threat of separation. The Canadian federal government has showed us time and again that it is willing to "negotiate" and make "concessions" when faced with the prospect of it's collapse. Look at us in the nation of Quebec, look at how boldly we can disregard the Canadian Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, and still find approval in the Supreme Court of Canada. The nation of Quebec has come into it's own right, and over the last few decades it is become clear to see that our possibilities are endless.

ChevySpoons, I have never made any "demands". I have only made known to your anglophone colleagues some of the demands that are regularly batted around at our PLQ meetings. Assuming an educated gentleman such as yourself is fluent in French, I encourage you to familiarize yourself with Quebec's political situation. Gone are the days when federalists believed in one united federal Canada. We have replaced this mentality with a more reasonable agenda. Today we believe Canada will devolve into a true confederation in order to better suit Quebec. We believe in collecting what is rightfully owed to us as one of two founding nations of Canada. Above all, we are all Quebecois first, and the fate of the rest of Canada, let alone the constitution, is none of our concern.
Great post!
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:37 PM
 
1,316 posts, read 2,031,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Still trying to find out who those anti-everything folks in Toronto are... Haven't found them yet but when I find them i'll let you know, going out now so will continue the search!....
I've met them in person repeatedly over the years. They can also be found on the CBC and on and in other Toronto-centric media, spitting out nonsense about things they don't understand. Good luck trying to identify them for yourself, though, for some of these people could very well be your friends and you might even support some of their notions. To you, they're unlikely to provoke your ire. To the rest of the land, however, they can and do infuriate us. Things to look for if you want to determine whether you're in their presence:
  1. They do often hate and oppose natural resource development.
  2. They're often vegetarian or vegan, but not for religious or cultural reasons.
  3. They're frequently obsessed about the environment to the exclusion of just about everything else.
  4. They're often politically correct in the extreme.
  5. Many of them think that Douglas, Pearson and Trudeau are the Holy Trinity.
  6. They're often suspicious of or outright opposed to anything American.
  7. Some of them have a bizarre obsession with urban cycling.
  8. Some of them obsess over keeping Quebec in the union (although this number is dwindling from generation-to-generation).
  9. The older ones amongst them do often think that government-mandated restrictions on and controls over what should be shown on TV and heard over the radio -- Canadian content, for the avoidance of doubt -- are a great thing. Yay for the CRTC!
  10. They're often strong supporters of the CBC, with some of the grey hairs amongst them having affixed "I vote CBC" bumper stickers to their vehicles at some time in their lives.
  11. More than a few of them have entertained the idea that communism was alright. Some still believe that.
  12. Some of them admire Castro. A few of these folks will have owned something with Che Guevara's image on it.
  13. They're almost all left-leaning, if not outright left wing, in their political orientation.
  14. They're shrill supporters of political parties to the left of the Conservatives.

Last edited by maclock; 02-14-2015 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
^^^

Maclock... There is no denying that the lower price of oil is going to negatively impact the Canadian economy as a whole due to less taxes.. It will hurt our overall GDP and it will hurt economic growth in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland and of course to a less extent other parts of Canada including the economy in Toronto because none of us are living in an economic bubble.. However, I think the fact the the price of that commodity is so volatile underscores why Canada needs to become a more innovative and diversified economy that is overall more adaptable to the inevitable changes in the prices of commodities, especially and in particular oil.. Decisions overseas - such as for instance by the Saudi Royal Family shouldn't hit us as hard as it has!.. It has nothing to do from my perspective as being a left wing the sky is falling loonie tune or anti west/anti Alberta nutcase - it has to do with having a diverse and robust economy.

Now as far as environmentalism and the negative impact of burning fossil fuels, I'm not living as an Amish person but a move towards reducing our fossil fuel consumption is a goal that we need to be moving towards.. Unless of course you believe that man made global warming is a farce and that the Scientific community on this is off their rockers..

I find most of your points either silly or exageratted - especially the part about being vegans and being 'anti american' which is so overused a term in here its almost laughable.. Anything critical of the U.S is automatically seen as 'anti american' and anything complementary is just ignored as it doesn't fit a narrative.

Canada has multiple economic engines Maclock - the energy industry in Alberta is one of them but it is just one... In any event, be it in Alberta, be it in Newfoundland, be it in Ontario - creating a more innovative divirsified economy is the way to go... Even Manufacturing has a place, especially when it is innovative, sophisticated and unique.

Last edited by fusion2; 02-14-2015 at 05:01 PM..
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:05 PM
 
1,316 posts, read 2,031,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
^^^
I find most of your points either silly or exageratted
There are two sides to that coin, fusion2.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
There are two sides to that coin, fusion2.
I've said before that we are quite the opposite Maclock and i'm ok with that.. Having said that, the economy of Canada is greater than oil and if we don't make it more than being that than we'll all be scrambling to find a coin to toss.. Its a very volatile sector....

Don't worry - this man will save us Maclock.. Vote Liberal in 2015!!

Justin Trudeau speaks to Calgary audience, blames Prime Minister for Alberta's e

As for Che t-shirts.... In a few years yer gonna be seeing a bunch of Americans sporting them too... Sometimes Maclock - a shirt is just a shirt ...
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:19 PM
 
1,316 posts, read 2,031,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Don't worry - this man will save us Maclock.. Vote Liberal in 2015!!

Justin Trudeau speaks to Calgary audience, blames Prime Minister for Alberta's e
That young man is not the leader Canada needs, whether now or in the future.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
That young man is not the leader Canada needs, whether now or in the future.
Oh let me guess - Stephen Harper is

btw Maclock - if you send me your size i'll pick you up a Che T-Shirt next time i'm visiting my friends in La Habana... He's really quite striking.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:33 PM
 
1,316 posts, read 2,031,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Oh let me guess - Stephen Harper is
That you presume I'm a Harper supporter isn't particularly surprising, but that's neither here nor there. I don't carry a party card at all and I can take Harper or I can leave him. I don't trust the Liberals as far as I can throw them for the most part, though.

Quite a few Canadians will vote for Harper by default the next time around because the mere thought of turning our the running of our country over to either Mulcair or Trudeau is too terrifying to contemplate. Not you brave Ontarians, though, particularly those who live in the GTA. I imagine that GTA dwellers will vote en masse for young Trudeau and his mighty mane. I've never understood the love that many Ontarians have for the Liberal brand in general and for the Trudeaus in particular.
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