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Acajack, this is a noble idea, but it will NEVER happen. I don't understand why there are Quebecois who don't understand this. We are one province out of 10. That's 1/10 who would want to completely overhaul the entire Canadian system. What about the other 9? They don't want to do what you want. This is what Anglos talk about when they say Quebec "blackmails" them. They are fine with Canada how it is, but Quebecois either want to entirely overhaul the system, or else go for independence. Independence is the only logical course because the other 9/10 provinces will NEVER want to go through a radical reform of all the know, just to satisfy Quebec.
If you want to operate like an independent country, then get independence.
If you want to be 1/10 provinces, then stay with Canada.
Those are the options. That's it. That's all. There is no middle way where you can be your own country but still be part of Canada. It's a nice cozy idea but it's entirely out of touch with reality and will NEVER happen because the other 9/10 provinces have no wish to do this whatsoever.
See my post in the other thread. You do not speak for all Canadians nor can you predict the future.
"it appears the province was concerned that if access to French-language schools was broadened in the rest of the country, Quebec would have to broaden access to English-language schools on its turf."
"it appears the province was concerned that if access to French-language schools was broadened in the rest of the country, Quebec would have to broaden access to English-language schools on its turf."
Brother; you just cannot make this stuff up.
This is actually a perfect example of why the constitutional framework and definitions relative to anglophones and francophones in Canada are seriously flawed, and can pit francophones against each other instead of working together.
As it stands now the Constitution basically works as though French in Quebec was every bit as strong as English is outside Quebec, when it actual fact it's French that's the minority language all across Canada, including in Quebec.
The idea that English needs ''protection'' from French in the Yukon is almost a sick joke.
This is actually a perfect example of why the constitutional framework and definitions relative to anglophones and francophones in Canada are seriously flawed, and can pit francophones against each other instead of working together.
As it stands now the Constitution basically works as though French in Quebec was every bit as strong as English is outside Quebec, when it actual fact it's French that's the minority language all across Canada, including in Quebec.
The idea that English needs ''protection'' from French in the Yukon is almost a sick joke.
So what's your solution to make the constitution stop pitting anglo against franco?
Is it still to force the other 9 provinces to radically change their government to suit Quebec?
People talking to each other is always a good thing but I'm more of a proponent of what you might call more breathing room in order to keep people out of each other's hair, so to speak.
I'm in favour of a "true confederation", sort of Swiss-style.
Must be frustrating ViveLeQuebecLibre, to see that through hard work and dedication Quebec has made itself into its own country over the last 60 years yet taking the last step to realize the dream of independence is illusive,particularly frustrating when your own French culture waffles on their dedication to a true French homeland and instead prefers to just go
on and on about how Anglos/ROC dont have Quebecs best interest at heart etc etc.Perhaps in the near future PKP can get the job done
I just hope they're not too harsh on people who don't speak perfect French! I'm currently teaching myself French, and I am terrified of the day I must embarrass myself by unwittingly butchering the language. So many nuances!
*flashback of learning Spanish and accidentally telling someone that I had 20 anuses*
I just hope they're not too harsh on people who don't speak perfect French! I'm currently teaching myself French, and I am terrified of the day I must embarrass myself by unwittingly butchering the language. So many nuances!
*flashback of learning Spanish and accidentally telling someone that I had 20 anuses*
Better accustom yourself to Quebec French. It's a different ball game. Learning French French as a foreign language and trying to understand Quebecois French is like learning British English as a foreign language and trying to understand ebonics. Same language, but it can be hard to follow for non-native speakers
I'm not convinced modernrebel really wants a discussion here, but I will give a response, if only for the bystanders like oohwanderlust. Matter of fact, I'm not exactly sure what modernrebel thinks of when he talks about "Quebec French". Since he's a native bilingual, I kind of suspect he's talking about the Franglais people like him tend to speak among themselves in places like Montreal, since that's what he's used to speak and hear. But that's a specific sociolect, and I for example don't ever really speak like that: as a fluently bilingual francophone, not a native bilingual, I naturally keep my French and English separate.
This brings us to what modernrebel doesn't think about, and he's of course far from the only one: registers. People don't speak the same way in every context, far from it. If you open a Quebec newspaper of record like La Presse or Le Devoir, the French you'll see isn't the same as the one you'd hear on the radio, which isn't the same that would be used on the job, or in parties among cultivated people, or on the street in rough neighbourhoods. And of course we're all able to manage several registers of language, it's part of what speaking fluently involves. Yet, since Quebecers have a strong sense of linguistic and cultural inferiority (see my post here), to which modernrebel is definitely not immune, he, like many other people, restricts "Quebec French" to mean registers we frown upon. (That's of course sociolinguistics: registers, and it may also be dialects, that are frowned upon are not objectively wrong, even though they're commonly described as "lazy speech". It's just that society has placed a negative value upon their use for whatever reason. A good example is this "Ebonics" or more properly African American Vernacular English which modernrebel mentioned in his post.)
So in other words, modernrebel, and I stress that he's far from the only one, restricts "Quebec French" only to very specific meanings that are a small subset of the French actually spoken in Quebec. It's like if you restricted "France French" to mean only the most informal registers of immigrant dialects spoken in the roughest Parisian banlieues. And you then told people, "yeah, I know you learned normal French, but let me tell you this, 'France French' is a whole other game!" Which it would be, obviously, in this context. Meanwhile, modernrebel probably refers to more formal registers of French spoken in Quebec as "basically" France French. That's because the formal register is meliorative, and France is commonly seen in Quebec as a cultural beacon, something to aspire to and emulate. He'd probably tell you that if you turn on the news on Radio-Canada, the hosts speak "France French". I know I've heard this before. They definitely don't; they don't sound anything like French people. They just speak a formal, newscaster register of Quebec French.
End point: Quebecers, like everyone else, are able to manage several registers of the same language. They don't use the same language in newspapers, on the radio, in meetings with their boss, or with friends in a party setting. And they know how to speak with foreigners whose French is not very good. (Although in this case, the biggest risk is that they'll just switch to English, believing that this "helps" their interlocutor.)
I'm not convinced modernrebel really wants a discussion here, but I will give a response, if only for the bystanders like oohwanderlust. Matter of fact, I'm not exactly sure what modernrebel thinks of when he talks about "Quebec French". Since he's a native bilingual, I kind of suspect he's talking about the Franglais people like him tend to speak among themselves in places like Montreal, since that's what he's used to speak and hear. But that's a specific sociolect, and I for example don't ever really speak like that: as a fluently bilingual francophone, not a native bilingual, I naturally keep my French and English separate.
This brings us to what modernrebel doesn't think about, and he's of course far from the only one: registers. People don't speak the same way in every context, far from it. If you open a Quebec newspaper of record like La Presse or Le Devoir, the French you'll see isn't the same as the one you'd hear on the radio, which isn't the same that would be used on the job, or in parties among cultivated people, or on the street in rough neighbourhoods. And of course we're all able to manage several registers of language, it's part of what speaking fluently involves. Yet, since Quebecers have a strong sense of linguistic and cultural inferiority (see my post here), to which modernrebel is definitely not immune, he, like many other people, restricts "Quebec French" to mean registers we frown upon. (That's of course sociolinguistics: registers, and it may also be dialects, that are frowned upon are not objectively wrong, even though they're commonly described as "lazy speech". It's just that society has placed a negative value upon their use for whatever reason. A good example is this "Ebonics" or more properly African American Vernacular English which modernrebel mentioned in his post.)
So in other words, modernrebel, and I stress that he's far from the only one, restricts "Quebec French" only to very specific meanings that are a small subset of the French actually spoken in Quebec. It's like if you restricted "France French" to mean only the most informal registers of immigrant dialects spoken in the roughest Parisian banlieues. And you then told people, "yeah, I know you learned normal French, but let me tell you this, 'France French' is a whole other game!" Which it would be, obviously, in this context. Meanwhile, modernrebel probably refers to more formal registers of French spoken in Quebec as "basically" France French. That's because the formal register is meliorative, and France is commonly seen in Quebec as a cultural beacon, something to aspire to and emulate. He'd probably tell you that if you turn on the news on Radio-Canada, the hosts speak "France French". I know I've heard this before. They definitely don't; they don't sound anything like French people. They just speak a formal, newscaster register of Quebec French.
End point: Quebecers, like everyone else, are able to manage several registers of the same language. They don't use the same language in newspapers, on the radio, in meetings with their boss, or with friends in a party setting. And they know how to speak with foreigners whose French is not very good. (Although in this case, the biggest risk is that they'll just switch to English, believing that this "helps" their interlocutor.)
When I say Quebec French I am talking about the French spoken in Quebec. Whether spoken by a newscaster or a guy on garbage man. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't understand why you seem offended by the fact that Quebec has its own version of French. Would you prefer if I call it Canadian French? American French? What term should I use to avoid offending you? Or would you prefer we pretend French in Quebec is the same as France French or Haitian French? It is time to be more secure in our identity. Quebec is different and that should be celebrated, not covered up.
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