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Old 03-16-2015, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,942 posts, read 27,343,960 times
Reputation: 8602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
How can you turn so harsh and bitter so quickly? I think you might take this stuff too personally. Just like when Netwit talked about not wanting to be in the same country as Ontario if Quebec separated. You've brought it up so many times on here as if it was personally hurtful, and also the official position of Western Canadians on the issue.

I like you fusion - but geez, don't take everything so personally.

Especially not when we voice our reasons as to why we think certain ideas won't help things.

Case in point: French at airports across Canada.

I said it didn't matter to me that I have to speak English to navigate YYZ. It doesn't shake my faith in a united Canada and I am sure that it doesn't shake the faith of most people in Quebec either.

Consider this: Switzerland does not have active viable separatist movements in its French and Italian speaking regions, and yet there sure as hell isn't a commitment or expectation about French or Italian service at Zurich airport.

No, the reason people in Geneva or Lugano feel comfortable being Swiss is because practically no one visits or moves there and says "WTF's up with this French/Italian crap? German's the majority language in Switzerland, and has way more speakers in Europe with Germany and Austria right next door. Plus, Mercedes is better than Renault or Fiat, Beethoven and Mozart are more famous than Vivaldi and Ravel, and the Mannschaft have won more World Cups, gnagnagnagna..."

People care about being respected in their home a lot more than they care about some form of tacit recognition far away from it. It's the first level of concern.

It's just one example but telling Quebec francophones that they can (or maybe *might* be able to) get French service at YYZ or even YVR is like giving someone a pair of ice skates when they've expressed their wish to start biking to school every day. Then you wonder why their reaction is "Gee... hmm... thanks"... and to keep asking for a bike.
On the airport bilingualism file...

Radio-Canada Ottawa-Gatineau reporting today about a woman's complaint about the lack of French-language services at Ottawa airport. He complaint was rejected because she eventually got service in French - after some delay though.

Une plainte jugée «non recevable» | Paul Gaboury | Politique

Interesting in the article is the addition at the end with the number of bilingual staff employed by CATSA at various airports.

Montreal is totally bilingual as expected. Quebec City is more than twice as bilingual as Ottawa which is difficult to understand (but still plainly obvious to anyone who travels).

Actually, I don't question the high numbers for Montreal and Quebec City. That good service, and if I was to use hyperbole, I'd add it's "the Canadian spirit".

The problem isn't that Montreal and Quebec City are so high, it's that Ottawa is so bloody low.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Montreal
359 posts, read 264,261 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
On the airport bilingualism file...

Radio-Canada Ottawa-Gatineau reporting today about a woman's complaint about the lack of French-language services at Ottawa airport. He complaint was rejected because she eventually got service in French - after some delay though.

Une plainte jugée «non recevable» | Paul Gaboury | Politique

Interesting in the article is the addition at the end with the number of bilingual staff employed by CATSA at various airports.

Montreal is totally bilingual as expected. Quebec City is more than twice as bilingual as Ottawa which is difficult to understand (but still plainly obvious to anyone who travels).

Actually, I don't question the high numbers for Montreal and Quebec City. That good service, and if I was to use hyperbole, I'd add it's "the Canadian spirit".

The problem isn't that Montreal and Quebec City are so high, it's that Ottawa is so bloody low.
There is some work to do, but I still don't think it warrants a hasty jump to independence.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Canada
170 posts, read 137,203 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
On the airport bilingualism file...

Radio-Canada Ottawa-Gatineau reporting today about a woman's complaint about the lack of French-language services at Ottawa airport. He complaint was rejected because she eventually got service in French - after some delay though.

Une plainte jugée «non recevable» | Paul Gaboury | Politique

Interesting in the article is the addition at the end with the number of bilingual staff employed by CATSA at various airports.

Montreal is totally bilingual as expected. Quebec City is more than twice as bilingual as Ottawa which is difficult to understand (but still plainly obvious to anyone who travels).

Actually, I don't question the high numbers for Montreal and Quebec City. That good service, and if I was to use hyperbole, I'd add it's "the Canadian spirit".

The problem isn't that Montreal and Quebec City are so high, it's that Ottawa is so bloody low.
Are you saying that you want more French in Ottawa?
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,942 posts, read 27,343,960 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCassidy View Post
Are you saying that you want more French in Ottawa?
I don't really care much (anymore), but certainly it would go a long way to making things appear more equitable (Ottawa vs. Montreal vs. Quebec City).

Of course, it's unlikely to change much as there are millions of Canadians who already think that places like Calgary and Edmonton are more bilingual than Montreal.

So what can you do...
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Old 03-21-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Nation du Québec
237 posts, read 185,736 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I don't really care much (anymore), but certainly it would go a long way to making things appear more equitable (Ottawa vs. Montreal vs. Quebec City).

Of course, it's unlikely to change much as there are millions of Canadians who already think that places like Calgary and Edmonton are more bilingual than Montreal.

So what can you do...
I thought I would add.. There is a guy from Winnipeg area who had a meeting at my work. Our francophone staff obliged to switch everything to English for him. Although he was 1 out of 12 people at the meeting. Since not everyone is bilingual we had to translate back to French for maybe 7-8 of our staff at the meeting. It was dysfunctional. After it all, he had the nerve to say that Manitoba is bilingual just like Quebec.

I wonder how it would play out if linguistic roles were reversed and we were in Manitoba?
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Old 03-21-2015, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
I thought I would add.. There is a guy from Winnipeg area who had a meeting at my work. Our francophone staff obliged to switch everything to English for him. Although he was 1 out of 12 people at the meeting. Since not everyone is bilingual we had to translate back to French for maybe 7-8 of our staff at the meeting. It was dysfunctional. After it all, he had the nerve to say that Manitoba is bilingual just like Quebec.

I wonder how it would play out if linguistic roles were reversed and we were in Manitoba?
Well it would be the same having a meeting with a representative from an American company though - he's largely not going to be able to engage in discussions in French (how many Americans speak French?).. Its just not an international business language nearly to the extent English is.. I mean lets face it - the reasons for more Quebecois being bilingual than English Canadians is largely for practical reasons. There just isn't as much value in speaking French as there is in speaking English.

Last edited by fusion2; 03-21-2015 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 03-21-2015, 06:14 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,229 posts, read 6,579,297 times
Reputation: 14183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
I thought I would add.. There is a guy from Winnipeg area who had a meeting at my work. Our francophone staff obliged to switch everything to English for him. Although he was 1 out of 12 people at the meeting. Since not everyone is bilingual we had to translate back to French for maybe 7-8 of our staff at the meeting. It was dysfunctional. After it all, he had the nerve to say that Manitoba is bilingual just like Quebec.

I wonder how it would play out if linguistic roles were reversed and we were in Manitoba?


The only thing that was dysfunctional about that was that your francophone staff switched everything to English for the English speaker. Why did you do that when it's totally not practical and such a waste of time? You should have had a translator do it the other way round with the translator speaking only for and on behalf of the English speaker who was in the minority. Since you didn't you only have yourselves to blame for the inconveniences you all experienced. Hopefully your office will have learned a lesson from that mistake and not repeat it next time.

.
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Old 03-22-2015, 07:24 AM
 
34,374 posts, read 41,463,803 times
Reputation: 29863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
I thought I would add.. There is a guy from Winnipeg area who had a meeting at my work. Our francophone staff obliged to switch everything to English for him. Although he was 1 out of 12 people at the meeting. Since not everyone is bilingual we had to translate back to French for maybe 7-8 of our staff at the meeting. It was dysfunctional. After it all, he had the nerve to say that Manitoba is bilingual just like Quebec.

I wonder how it would play out if linguistic roles were reversed and we were in Manitoba?

Why didnt you just do the whole meeting in French,or inform the guy from Winnipeg that this is Quebec and all meetings will take place in French, this being the case perhaps given a bit of warning his company could have sent some one more proficient in French.
I'd imagine this scenario happens frequently when 6-7 million francophones are living amidst a North American demographic of 300million + Anglophones, Like it or not if Quebec wants to function in North Americas world of business English is the name of the game.Expecting people to come to Quebec from elsewhere in Canada or the USA and speak French is illogical.
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:36 PM
 
695 posts, read 736,541 times
Reputation: 922
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Why didnt you just do the whole meeting in French,or inform the guy from Winnipeg that this is Quebec and all meetings will take place in French, this being the case perhaps given a bit of warning his company could have sent some one more proficient in French.
I'd imagine this scenario happens frequently when 6-7 million francophones are living amidst a North American demographic of 300million + Anglophones, Like it or not if Quebec wants to function in North Americas world of business English is the name of the game.Expecting people to come to Quebec from elsewhere in Canada or the USA and speak French is illogical.
Not really. French isn't the most widely spoken language, but there are enough bilinguals that you can hire one to work for your company, or at the very least hire a translator. Nobody sends monolingual Anglophones to Japan, China or Taiwan, so why send them to Québec
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Old 03-22-2015, 01:36 PM
 
2,560 posts, read 2,179,030 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexdiamondz1902 View Post
Not really. French isn't the most widely spoken language, but there are enough bilinguals that you can hire one to work for your company, or at the very least hire a translator. Nobody sends monolingual Anglophones to Japan, China or Taiwan, so why send them to Québec
I agree with your other points. I'm not sure if you've been to or worked in China or the Asia pacific, but I have to disagree with the highlighted.

Actually most multinationals' executives who go to China speak very little to no Chinese Mandarin. I work with a multinational tech firm and I know for a fact that most of the mid-level managers and technical consultants in our Beijing, Nanjing, and Shanghai offices speak very little to no Mandarin. In fact, many of them are long-time expat residents in China, and their Chinese is still mediocre to non-existent by local standards. All internal communications within the Greater China Region in our company are conducted in English, and most employees are also expected to have a basic to fluent command of English.

China is different from Quebec in that most Chinese people tend to have a very different attitude towards Anglo-speaking world.

First, speaking English does no harm to Chinese culture because English-speakers will always be a minority in China and Asia.

Second, Chinese government and people tend to have a very practical/pragmatic approach to interaction with foreign cultures - in that they will do whatever is necessary to adapt and adopt foreign culture as long as it benefits Chinese economy and China's business interests. So pragmatic to the point that I even know a few local Chinese executives in our China offices that regularly keep North American work hours so as to be in sync with our HQ in California. When I'm working, they'll also be working.

Chinese Mandarin is the most widely spoken language in the world due to China's large population base. However, if you interact with any Chinese person they'd tell you that when it comes to the world of business especially among multinational companies, English will almost always be a prerequisite and the de facto language of communication especially in Asia Pacific region.
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