U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-23-2015, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,956 posts, read 27,383,424 times
Reputation: 8612

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well it would be the same having a meeting with a representative from an American company though - he's largely not going to be able to engage in discussions in French (how many Americans speak French?).. Its just not an international business language nearly to the extent English is.. I mean lets face it - the reasons for more Quebecois being bilingual than English Canadians is largely for practical reasons. There just isn't as much value in speaking French as there is in speaking English.
This is quite true, but to be the devil's advocate... this kind of demonstrates that Quebec being in Canada doesn't really bring a ''plus'' for the French language (as if often claimed). Guys from Winnipeg come to Quebec and we have to speak English with them, just like we have to do with guys from Omaha.

The argument that being inside the allegedly ''safe confines'' of Canada somehow protects Quebec from assimilation... I have never bought into that one. Or at least I haven't for a long time.

We generally have to use English with you guys just like we do with the Americans or the British or the Indians. That we have the same passports doesn't provide much of a bonus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-23-2015, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,151,642 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
This is quite true, but to be the devil's advocate... this kind of demonstrates that Quebec being in Canada doesn't really bring a ''plus'' for the French language (as if often claimed). Guys from Winnipeg come to Quebec and we have to speak English with them, just like we have to do with guys from Omaha.

The argument that being inside the allegedly ''safe confines'' of Canada somehow protects Quebec from assimilation... I have never bought into that one. Or at least I haven't for a long time.

We generally have to use English with you guys just like we do with the Americans or the British or the Indians. That we have the same passports doesn't provide much of a bonus.
Yes Acajack and when I was the English Canadian wacko from Ontario advocating that it should be mandatory for all students who graduate from the P.S system at the end of H.S be required to speak fluently in both languages from coast to coast to coast I was accused of being a naive out of touch lunatic.. When I thought we should do more to bridge cultural divides at a younger age, not to alienate cultures but get them to work with and understand eachother to ultimately further strengthen said cultures and indeed national unity not destroy cultures and push eachother away I was accused of being out of touch. When I reached out a hand to someone about an issue on a personal level to honestly do something about a specific problem in a specific way in a genuine manner it wasn't met with an open armed invitation to engage - it was met with sarcasm and condescension.. Oh but wait - I take things too personally......

If people don't shed the baggage from the past and don't look to the future in an open, respectful, understanding way and we don't engage with one another as human beings first than I fear for the future...

Last edited by fusion2; 03-23-2015 at 09:15 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,956 posts, read 27,383,424 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Yes Acajack and when I was the English Canadian wacko from Ontario advocating that it should be mandatory for all students who graduate from the P.S system at the end of H.S be required to speak fluently in both languages from coast to coast to coast I was accused of being a naive out of touch lunatic.. When I thought we should do more to bridge cultural divides at a younger age, not to alienate cultures but get them to work with and understand eachother to ultimately further strengthen said cultures and indeed national unity not destroy cultures and push eachother away I was accused of being out of touch. When I reached out a hand to someone about an issue on a personal level to honestly do something about a specific problem in a specific way in a genuine manner it wasn't met with an open armed invitation to engage - it was met with sarcasm and condescension.. Oh but wait - I take things too personally......

If people don't shed the baggage from the past and don't look to the future in an open, respectful, understanding way and we don't engage with one another as human beings first than I fear for the future...
I don't think I ever called you a wacko or a lunatic. I did think your suggestion would be good but unfortunately it's even more impractical and unlikely than my devolution plan which was also derided.

I do think that the French immersion programs that started across the country in the 1970s were a step in the direction of bilingualizing a greater share of Canada's anglophone population. However it seems to have reached a plateau (for what reason I am not sure: willpower? resources both human and financial?) and the result we are getting now is a small but noticeable bilingual "class" (some would say "élite") of English-speaking Canadians who can speak pretty good French. Stephen Harper has a number of them in his cabinet in fact.

I don't what it would take to go to the next level, as all of the provinces have had the ability and freedom to improve things (wrt to the teaching of French) over the last 40 years or so, but have not done so and seem to be satisfied with the current set-up which has a small group of French immersion kids becoming bilingual and the rest of the mass remaining unilingual English (I don't buy the mythology about teaching Mandarin or other languages BTW...).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2015, 08:40 AM
 
34,411 posts, read 41,518,327 times
Reputation: 29889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

I do think that the French immersion programs that started across the country in the 1970s were a step in the direction of bilingualizing a greater share of Canada's anglophone population.
Why does Canadas Anglo population need to become bilingual?Here in Quebec and its environs it certainly makes sense but elsewhere in Canada i dont see the point in teaching people another language for no reason when their lives can be lived in its entirety in English or whatever language they choose.Why would an English community somewhere in the ROC need French?.
Do you have visions of every one in Canada someday speaking French?
Most people speak one language unless the need arises to learn another,outside Quebec the need to know/learn French is very minimal.

Last edited by jambo101; 03-24-2015 at 09:17 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2015, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,956 posts, read 27,383,424 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Why does Canadas Anglo population need to become bilingual?Here in Quebec and its environs it certainly makes sense but elsewhere in Canada i dont see the point in teaching people another language for no reason when their lives can be lived in its entirety in English or whatever language they choose.Why would an English community somewhere in the ROC need French?.
Do you have visions of every one in Canada someday speaking French?
Most people speak one language unless the need arises to learn another,outside Quebec the need to know/learn French is very minimal.
I am not necessarily advocating for all English Canadians to learn French, but more bilingualism in that community is certainly a good way to improve dialogue and create affinities between anglophones and francophones, and Quebec and the ROC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2015, 04:00 PM
 
34,411 posts, read 41,518,327 times
Reputation: 29889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am not necessarily advocating for all English Canadians to learn French, but more bilingualism in that community is certainly a good way to improve dialogue and create affinities between anglophones and francophones, and Quebec and the ROC.
If people feel they need to learn a second language they'll learn it but they arent going to learn a second language for no reason.As for the idea more bilingualism in that community is certainly a good way to improve dialogue and create affinities between anglophones and francophones, hows that working out with Quebecs Anglophone demographic?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2015, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Ottawa
156 posts, read 148,057 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am not necessarily advocating for all English Canadians to learn French, but more bilingualism in that community is certainly a good way to improve dialogue and create affinities between anglophones and francophones, and Quebec and the ROC.
What I don't understand is why you beat around the bush with ideas like teaching more French to anglos or forcing the other nine provinces into a devolution we don't want. Why don't you just go get independence? What more do you expect us to do for you!? Obviously there is no other realistic alternative. Just go doit so we can all move on with our lives. You'd probably a nice country in an independent Quebec. Let's review the facts. 1. Teaching more French to anglos doesn't work. Look at anglo Montrealers and NB. If anything it gives a breeding ground to anti-Quebec rhetoric (Quebec is forcing French on us). 2. There will be no devolution. Just forget about it because it ain't gonna happen. It's 2015, Meech Lake failed two decades ago, time to move on. 3. Quebec will never be content until they are either assimilated or get independence. If I was a French Quebecker i know which one I would choose. So just get it done with already. I know you want to have your cake and it it too but it's kinda one or the other.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2015, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,956 posts, read 27,383,424 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyblue1987 View Post
What I don't understand is why you beat around the bush with ideas like teaching more French to anglos or forcing the other nine provinces into a devolution we don't want. Why don't you just go get independence? What more do you expect us to do for you!? Obviously there is no other realistic alternative. Just go doit so we can all move on with our lives. You'd probably a nice country in an independent Quebec. Let's review the facts. 1. Teaching more French to anglos doesn't work. Look at anglo Montrealers and NB. If anything it gives a breeding ground to anti-Quebec rhetoric (Quebec is forcing French on us). 2. There will be no devolution. Just forget about it because it ain't gonna happen. It's 2015, Meech Lake failed two decades ago, time to move on. 3. Quebec will never be content until they are either assimilated or get independence. If I was a French Quebecker i know which one I would choose. So just get it done with already. I know you want to have your cake and it it too but it's kinda one or the other.
Thanks for your advice but you don't speak for all Canadians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2015, 10:22 PM
 
34,411 posts, read 41,518,327 times
Reputation: 29889
If elected Francois Legault of the CAQ parti has a novel way of getting more people to become bilingual.
He's actually serious and sees nothing wrong with the idea..
CAQ wants immigrants to pass culture test or leave - Montreal - CBC News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2015, 07:32 AM
 
18,302 posts, read 10,390,605 times
Reputation: 13370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I don't think I ever called you a wacko or a lunatic. I did think your suggestion would be good but unfortunately it's even more impractical and unlikely than my devolution plan which was also derided.

I do think that the French immersion programs that started across the country in the 1970s were a step in the direction of bilingualizing a greater share of Canada's anglophone population. However it seems to have reached a plateau (for what reason I am not sure: willpower? resources both human and financial?) and the result we are getting now is a small but noticeable bilingual "class" (some would say "élite") of English-speaking Canadians who can speak pretty good French. Stephen Harper has a number of them in his cabinet in fact.

I don't what it would take to go to the next level, as all of the provinces have had the ability and freedom to improve things (wrt to the teaching of French) over the last 40 years or so, but have not done so and seem to be satisfied with the current set-up which has a small group of French immersion kids becoming bilingual and the rest of the mass remaining unilingual English (I don't buy the mythology about teaching Mandarin or other languages BTW...).
It plateaued because there was no real perceived benefit to the majority of Canadians other than having knowledge of a second language.

It also lost cachet due to it being demonstrably apparent that Quebec didn't give a ratz patoot by showing either support or appreciation. Instead the ROC got a clear signal "it will never be enough to erase the stain; let's have another round of very expensive separation angst just to demonstrate our complete disdain for any and all efforts by the ROC".

That's the way to garner co-operation and a will to compromise by the ROC. Show 'em you could care less and demand more in the same breath.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top