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@Acajac. The problem with your post is "if every single Francophone voted for independence." We all know that is a pipe dream. I was referring to the fact that Allophones and Anglophones are pretty much opposed, as a bloc, to Quebec independence, and along with the considerable number of Francophones who are also wary of independence, they are formidable. Independence is more than just about pride of place -- we saw that in Scotland -- and voters consider security and what's best for the province. It's a total picture, and that's why nationalistic "true believers" in Quebec always have a big problem (not to mention that some of the more rabid separatists in Quebec can be downright scary in their rhetoric). It's important to underline that the real "neutrals" in Quebec, the Allophones of Montreal, often feel an affinity with English-speaking Canada. They happen to admire it and will often tell you that it is Ontario and British Columbus that makes Canada the prosperous success story it is nationwide. They don't want Quebec to separate from the larger federation, and I don't think it will soon.
Your view of the allophone population in Montreal is seriously outdated. Some still feel exactly the way you describe but newer arrivals, though they obviously don't massively favour Quebec independence, tend to have a more nuanced view of things.
Your view of the allophone population in Montreal is seriously outdated. Some still feel exactly the way you describe but newer arrivals, though they obviously don't massively favour Quebec independence, tend to have a more nuanced view of things.
It's not 1975 any more.
I'd say she's off in more than a few ways. In another thread she considered the first nations one of three "founders" of Canada with the English and French. It's hard to reason with that.
True, it's not 1975 anymore, but Quebec isn't Catalonia in 2015 either, and English-speaking Canada doesn't suffer anywhere near the level of resentment, poor reputation, and bad karma that Castilian-dominated Spain does in Catalonia. Anglo-Canada (I mean now) is simply far more tolerant and accommodating. Quebec Allophones must now send their kids to French schools (and get their basic schooling in French), and so yes, a more "organic" integration (your expression above, in another post) is being achieved with the rest of French Quebec. But Allophones often speak English at some level, and most make sure their children are perfectly bilingual. They all want to ensure their mobility -- theirs and their children's -- to move anywhere in Canada, from PEI to Victoria, BC. They still have a very strong affinity, even admiration, for Anglophone Canada. This means they will be voting against Quebec independence, as a bloc, for many referenda to come.
True, it's not 1975 anymore, but Quebec isn't Catalonia in 2015 either, and English-speaking Canada doesn't suffer anywhere near the level of resentment, poor reputation, and bad karma that Castilian-dominated Spain does in Catalonia. Anglo-Canada (I mean now) is simply far more tolerant and accommodating. Quebec Allophones must now send their kids to French schools (and get their basic schooling in French), and so yes, a more "organic" integration (your expression above, in another post) is being achieved with the rest of French Quebec. But Allophones often speak English at some level, and most make sure their children are perfectly bilingual. They all want to ensure their mobility -- theirs and their children's -- to move anywhere in Canada, from PEI to Victoria, BC. They still have a very strong affinity, even admiration, for Anglophone Canada. This means they will be voting against Quebec independence, as a bloc, for many referenda to come.
Why are you trying to school me on Quebec? Have you looked at my location?
I am sitting as I write this within a 20 second walk on the office floor from a half dozen or so allophone Quebecers.
I'd say she's off in more than a few ways. In another thread she considered the first nations one of three "founders" of Canada with the English and French. It's hard to reason with that.
You're using my remark about "three nations", which was used casually, to split hairs on a completely different topic, which is totally specious. And for the record, my main point on the other thread is valid: In a world where every country has mistreated its native populations, Canada changed its evil ways earlier, and more consciously, than probably any other place on earth: more than we Americans did, earlier than the Australians, and far more than the South and Central Americans, Han Chinese, etc. Ottawa and the provinces have had a humanistic native policy for a far longer time, and many countries in the world could learn from them.
You're using my remark about "three nations", which was used casually, to split hairs on a completely different topic, which is totally specious. And for the record, my main point on the other thread is valid: In a world where every country has mistreated its native populations, Canada changed its evil ways earlier, and more consciously, than probably any other place on earth: more than we Americans did, earlier than the Australians, and far more than the South and Central Americans, Han Chinese, etc. Ottawa and the provinces have had a humanistic native policy for a far longer time, and many countries in the world could learn from them.
You might want to ask Canadian aboriginals themselves before making statements of that nature.
Why are you trying to school me on Quebec? Have you looked at my location?
I am sitting as I write this within a 20 second walk on the office floor from a half dozen or so allophone Quebecers.
I have a special interest in Quebec, have visited there, and I speak and write fluent French. I love Quebec (though I prefer other cities there to Montreal) and have strong opinions about it. Americans do have a right to their opinion about other countries, do they not? And when I studied in France, French folks would come up and debate me about every aspect of American society (sometimes they were actually right).
You might want to ask Canadian aboriginals themselves before making statements of that nature.
Canadian aboriginals have every reason to remind us of their harsh treatment since the 16th century. But again, Canada realized its errors and atrocities far earlier than most other countries did, and it is making a serious effort to repair the "sins of their fathers". That is to be acknowledged, and certainly compared very soberly with the record in the US, Australia, Brazil, Peru, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and China, among others.
In a world where every country has mistreated its native populations, Canada changed its evil ways earlier, and more consciously, than probably any other place on earth: more than we Americans did, earlier than the Australians, and far more than the South and Central Americans, Han Chinese, etc. Ottawa and the provinces have had a humanistic native policy for a far longer time, and many countries in the world could learn from them.
I have a special interest in Quebec, have visited there, and I speak and write fluent French. I love Quebec (though I prefer other cities there to Montreal) and have strong opinions about it. Americans do have a right to their opinion about other countries, do they not? And when I studied in France, French folks would come up and debate me about every aspect of American society (sometimes they were actually right).
You're right to have your opinion. But you also have the right to be told you're wrong/misinformed/outdated etc.
Sort of like free speech. Free speech does not mean consequence free speech. If you say dumb things, expect to get called out on it.
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