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Old 01-29-2015, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
1,940 posts, read 938,455 times
Reputation: 2066

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
I don't think you'll be surprised.....

Bottom line, the vast majority of us far prefer our system and its philosophy to yours, but if you're shopping for a new system I don't like ours enough to recommend it. Perhaps France's or Denmark's systems may be of interest? They seem to have gotten there's closer to right then we have.
Well written review.

The problem in US is not in the quality of care but its unequal distribution and the payment method.

If we can have a Medicare like system that covers good basic health care for all with a deduction from the payroll and one payer for all there will a marked reduction of costs via the huge middleman being cut out. If we can then add supplemental insurance for other things like cosmetic surgery then it can become truly a good system.

I don't see that as happening in my lifetime.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,489,713 times
Reputation: 4888
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Well written review.

The problem in US is not in the quality of care but its unequal distribution and the payment method.

If we can have a Medicare like system that covers good basic health care for all with a deduction from the payroll and one payer for all there will a marked reduction of costs via the huge middleman being cut out. If we can then add supplemental insurance for other things like cosmetic surgery then it can become truly a good system.

I don't see that as happening in my lifetime.
That does sound like a reasonable made-in-America solution that would work pretty well for you guys. Do you think the experience with the ACA turned more Americans off that sort of solution or did it make it more likely to happen rather then less? I don't really understand that bill, but it does seem like its private insurance based solution to universality is problematic.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:22 PM
 
17 posts, read 30,534 times
Reputation: 13
Why do so many Canadians go to the US for healthcare? You haven't answered my question.

They also can't do organ transplants in Canada or do brain surgery. They can't even keep doctors or nurses to practice in their own country as every doctor or nurse leaves Canada to make more money across the border here in America. There for the Canadian government is forced to import doctors from India to practice in Canada that are under qualified and don't speak English and there are few and far between so they only take a few patients. Which is why Canada holds healthcare lotteries so patients can get a family doctor (see john stossel report on Canadian healthcare on YouTube) the rest of the people are out of luck. It's really bad in Canada.

Canada is definitely going to privatize healthcare. Private clinics are opening up all over Canada. The days of government run healthcare will soon be over.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
1,940 posts, read 938,455 times
Reputation: 2066
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
That does sound like a reasonable made-in-America solution that would work pretty well for you guys. Do you think the experience with the ACA turned more Americans off that sort of solution or did it make it more likely to happen rather then less? I don't really understand that bill, but it does seem like its private insurance based solution to universality is problematic.
Ignore Wintertime.

The ACA is a mess because it truly did not address the main issue - cost. It still costs a lot to get insurance compared to the penalty for not having it. There are many insurance companies but the benefits they provide for these new enrollees is very meager compared to what they charge.

But I really can't blame them fully. All they get are these sick patients who cannot get coverage elsewhere. The healthy ones don't enroll to balance it out. And you still have the middlemen and the high cost of drugs with no bargaining power at all.

Obama cracked and he took out a public option as one of the choices in the ACA bill. If it was left in place the majority of the new customers would have chosen it and in 20 years there would have been "medicare" for all.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:04 PM
 
34,377 posts, read 41,463,803 times
Reputation: 29863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintertimesasness View Post
Why do so many Canadians go to the US for healthcare? You haven't answered my question.

.
More bs, where do you get this garbage? let me guess FOX entertainment channel?
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...71.QUmSL5vy2WI
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:14 PM
 
17 posts, read 30,534 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
More bs, where do you get this garbage? let me guess FOX entertainment channel?
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...71.QUmSL5vy2WI
No. And what's wrong with Fox News?
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:22 PM
 
2,560 posts, read 2,179,030 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintertimesasness View Post
Why do so many Canadians go to the US for healthcare? You haven't answered my question.

They also can't do organ transplants in Canada or do brain surgery. They can't even keep doctors or nurses to practice in their own country as every doctor or nurse leaves Canada to make more money across the border here in America. There for the Canadian government is forced to import doctors from India to practice in Canada that are under qualified and don't speak English and there are few and far between so they only take a few patients. Which is why Canada holds healthcare lotteries so patients can get a family doctor (see john stossel report on Canadian healthcare on YouTube) the rest of the people are out of luck. It's really bad in Canada.

Canada is definitely going to privatize healthcare. Private clinics are opening up all over Canada. The days of government run healthcare will soon be over.
At first, I didn't even want to respond to this troll thread but sure, I'll humor you with some actual facts published by U.S. hospitals:

1. Out of 136 U.S. hospitals and health facilities surveyed near the U.S.-Canada border, 80% of those facilities saw one (1) or fewer Canadian patient per month (on average total 10-12 patients per year per facility). 40% of the 136 U.S. border hospitals saw a grand total of zero (0) Canadian patient in the preceding year.

2. Maybe Canadians are flocking to higher quality U.S. hospitals you might ask? Out of the top 20 U.S. hospitals surveyed (think Johns Hopkins, Cleveland Clinic, etc.), only 1 hospital recorded seeing 60 or more Canadian patients in one year.

3. In an extensive survey of over 18,000 Canadian patients nationwide, only a grand total of 90 reported visiting a U.S. hospital. And out of the 90, only 20 patients expressly went to the United States for healthcare purposes. The other 70 patients utilized the U.S. health system due to emergencies due to travel and other unforeseen incidents.

4. You state that "every doctor or nurse leaves Canada to practice here in America". Only 169 physicians left for the United States in 2003; 138 in 2004; 122 both in 2005 and 2006. These numbers represent less than 0.5 percent of all doctors working in Canada.

5. In fact, the situation of doctor outflow has become quite the reverse since 2005 - Immigration Canada has recorded a NET INFLOW of on average 100+ doctors into Canada since 2005.

6. Wait time is the primary gripe among Canadians seeking specialized healthcare. Historically, average wait time has always been correlated with a nation's healthcare spending per capita.

According to the OECD, Canada spends on average $4363 per capita in healthcare, in 2009. During the same period, the United States spent, on average along with heavy government subsidies (Medicare/Medicaid), $7960 per capita - a staggering 82.44% more than the per capita healthcare spending in Canada. Where's the fiscal conservatism and responsibility that the GOP likes to trump?

7. And finally, the most damning data to demolish your case: out of a nationwide survey of 18,000 Canadian patients, 99.39% of all respondents have not had the need to use the U.S. healthcare system. Where is this flock of Canadians that you speak of?

Full survey results and data charts can be found here: Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians

But that's okay if you don't have the intellectual capacity to read that report or understand basic data. I know that people like you are not really here to reason.

Last edited by bostonkid123; 01-29-2015 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,489,713 times
Reputation: 4888
Handled nicely, but I'll address one more troll comment just so no one gets confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintertimesasness View Post
They also can't do organ transplants in Canada or do brain surgery.
That's absolutely incorrect, I even happen to know a person socially who had brain surgery recently and someone else who had an organ transplant. The main issue is not having enough organ donors for everyone who needs an organ, not expertise, no organ goes to waste in this country because of a lack of expertise. When an organ becomes available, it goes to the next person on the donor list, there are no limits to this sort of surgery because of a lack of surgeons. Not enough of surgeons may lead to a longer wait for something like a hip replacement but organ donations are a priority and I will add again - no organ goes to waste! I treat people who have had organ donations regularly (I am a Canadian healthcare professional).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Ignore Wintertime.

The ACA is a mess because it truly did not address the main issue - cost. It still costs a lot to get insurance compared to the penalty for not having it. There are many insurance companies but the benefits they provide for these new enrollees is very meager compared to what they charge.

But I really can't blame them fully. All they get are these sick patients who cannot get coverage elsewhere. The healthy ones don't enroll to balance it out. And you still have the middlemen and the high cost of drugs with no bargaining power at all.

Obama cracked and he took out a public option as one of the choices in the ACA bill. If it was left in place the majority of the new customers would have chosen it and in 20 years there would have been "medicare" for all.
Interesting commentary, I hadn't realized a public option had been on the table. A shame, I can see why Americans are dissatisfied with the ACA.

Last edited by BIMBAM; 01-29-2015 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 01-29-2015, 07:46 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,007,397 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
Ignore Wintertime.

The ACA is a mess because it truly did not address the main issue - cost. It still costs a lot to get insurance compared to the penalty for not having it. There are many insurance companies but the benefits they provide for these new enrollees is very meager compared to what they charge.

But I really can't blame them fully. All they get are these sick patients who cannot get coverage elsewhere. The healthy ones don't enroll to balance it out. And you still have the middlemen and the high cost of drugs with no bargaining power at all.

Obama cracked and he took out a public option as one of the choices in the ACA bill. If it was left in place the majority of the new customers would have chosen it and in 20 years there would have been "medicare" for all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Interesting commentary, I hadn't realized a public option had been on the table. A shame, I can see why Americans are dissatisfied with the ACA.
I have lost all desire to discuss this topic on the forum anymore, but wanted to post the CBO baseline updates from January 2015.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...-ACAtables.pdf

Americans are dissatisfied and Canadians think that the ACA is garbage because they rely on googling BS from random sites rather than going straight to the data and interpreting it for themselves.

The numbers show how many are now projected to be insured under the plan and also show that the projected costs are 20% less than originally estimated. The revision of those cost estimates is tied to a general slowdown in the growth of health care costs and lower projections of insurance premiums that are subsidized by the federal government.

The law is not perfect and needs some major fine tuning, but a large majority of the Americans who dont like it is due to misinformation. It is also strange for people to speak unfavorably about a law that really only has been fully in place for 1 enrollment year. Is that enough to really judge its effectiveness.

Anyways, I've spoken way too much and the OP is obviously a troll. Carry on folks!

P.S. Good post Bostonkid. Medical tourism is a very small part of a US HC Systems business plan compared to other countries. Canadians are also very far down on the list of citizens that participate in medical tourism. Which is why the medical tourism investments that US based HC Systems make are typically overseas, due to cost effectiveness and proximity to their target base.

Last edited by edwardsyzzurphands; 01-29-2015 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 01-29-2015, 08:21 PM
 
14,790 posts, read 14,046,235 times
Reputation: 20500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintertimesasness View Post
Why do so many Canadians go to the US for healthcare? You haven't answered my question.

They also can't do organ transplants in Canada or do brain surgery. They can't even keep doctors or nurses to practice in their own country as every doctor or nurse leaves Canada to make more money across the border here in America. There for the Canadian government is forced to import doctors from India to practice in Canada that are under qualified and don't speak English and there are few and far between so they only take a few patients. Which is why Canada holds healthcare lotteries so patients can get a family doctor (see john stossel report on Canadian healthcare on YouTube) the rest of the people are out of luck. It's really bad in Canada.

Canada is definitely going to privatize healthcare. Private clinics are opening up all over Canada. The days of government run healthcare will soon be over.
You're really bad at trolling.
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