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View Poll Results: Is Quebec still a colony of Canada?
Quebec is a colony of Canada 23 60.53%
Quebec is not a colony of Canada 15 39.47%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-13-2015, 11:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbubbles81 View Post
Yes I am. Why do you ask?
Curious as to why you are pushing so hard for Quebec separation, from a non-Canadian's perspective.
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
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Because I love you guys so much, I've found some information on how Quebec came to be part of the current Canadian federation around 1867.

As you know, there were a bunch of British colonies around this part of the world at the time.

Quebec was called Canada East and was grouped together with Canada West (Ontario) and there was united parliament for this entity. NS, NB and PEI and the others were all separate from the two united "Canadas".

The vote for the Confederation plan was held on March 10, 1865. The united assembly appears to have had its seats evenly divided between Ontario (Canada W) and Quebec (Canada E) with 62 each.

Note that the Quebec deputation had a large number of anglophones (close to a quarter, which reflected the high anglo share of the Quebec population at the time). The Ontario deputation had relatively few francophones in it.

The vote easily passed as almost all of the Ontario members voted for it.

But the vote among the Quebec members of the assembly was 37 to 25 in favour of Confederation.

The francophone vote was 26 to 22 in favour of Confederation.
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:40 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbubbles81 View Post
Belgium was made by the rebellion against Dutch rule. The Walloons and Flemish teamed up to create a new country from the Netherlands, and after they won the British guaranteed their independence so that France wouldn't annex them (which would inevitably happen sooner or later). Not really similar to Canada.
Britain is really a world class expert in creating or separating nations. Even before they leave, they will most likely plant some timed bomb
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:43 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Becau
The vote easily passed as almost all of the Ontario members voted for it.

But the vote among the Quebec members of the assembly was 37 to 25 in favour of Confederation.

The francophone vote was 26 to 22 in favour of Confederation.
thanks for the research. That does seem to indicate Quebec was not forced to join what is now Canada, though not with unanimous support.
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
thanks for the research. That does seem to indicate Quebec was not forced to join what is now Canada, though not with unanimous support.
I also forgot to mention that the parliamentary history from that era also reveals multiple occasions where members from Quebec were asking for a public consultation on such an important matter, but every single time they were shot down. I think these demands for a public vote even continued for some time after the decision was made (asking to give the public the right to reconsider) but it was never followed through upon.
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:49 AM
 
2,566 posts, read 2,187,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I also forgot to mention that the parliamentary history from that era also reveals multiple occasions where members from Quebec were asking for a public consultation on such an important matter, but every single time they were shot down. I think these demands for a public vote even continued for some time after the decision was made (asking to give the public the right to reconsider) but it was never followed through upon.
Good information. Thanks Acajack. Always good know the historical context
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,267,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Because I love you guys so much, I've found some information on how Quebec came to be part of the current Canadian federation around 1867.

As you know, there were a bunch of British colonies around this part of the world at the time.

Quebec was called Canada East and was grouped together with Canada West (Ontario) and there was united parliament for this entity. NS, NB and PEI and the others were all separate from the two united "Canadas".

The vote for the Confederation plan was held on March 10, 1865. The united assembly appears to have had its seats evenly divided between Ontario (Canada W) and Quebec (Canada E) with 62 each.

Note that the Quebec deputation had a large number of anglophones (close to a quarter, which reflected the high anglo share of the Quebec population at the time). The Ontario deputation had relatively few francophones in it.

The vote easily passed as almost all of the Ontario members voted for it.

But the vote among the Quebec members of the assembly was 37 to 25 in favour of Confederation.

The francophone vote was 26 to 22 in favour of Confederation.
There wasn't any question who was going to win the vote. Conservative (Anti-confederation francophone) polling districts were closed for the slightest offenses, conservative representatives were kidnapped and as a result absent for the vote, conservative candidates were openly bought off, and the Catholic church threatened eternal damnation for anyone who voted against confederation.

The fact that so many Canadiens (Quebecois) still voted against confederation is amazing. In a clean democratic vote there is no question in my mind that they would have rejected confederation. The push for confederation in Nova Scotia was sketchy (hey, if they reject confederation, just vote again and this time it will somehow be clearly in favor!), but in Quebec it was just downright fraudulent even by the standards of the day.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
There wasn't any question who was going to win the vote. Conservative (Anti-confederation francophone) polling districts were closed for the slightest offenses, conservative representatives were kidnapped and as a result absent for the vote, conservative candidates were openly bought off, and the Catholic church threatened eternal damnation for anyone who voted against confederation.

The fact that so many Canadiens (Quebecois) still voted against confederation is amazing. In a clean democratic vote there is no question in my mind that they would have rejected confederation. The push for confederation in Nova Scotia was sketchy (hey, if they reject confederation, just vote again and this time it will somehow be clearly in favor!), but in Quebec it was just downright fraudulent even by the standards of the day.
All of the historical records of the era that I have read from this era pretty much point to this exactly.

It wasn't the first time or the last time.

Newfoundland's entry into Confederation in 1949 was also extremely fishy. With an extremely close 50%+1 vote in favour, and no recount ever being done as the ballots were for some reason were all burned the very next day of the vote or something...
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Denmark
74 posts, read 57,807 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
thanks for the research. That does seem to indicate Quebec was not forced to join what is now Canada, though not with unanimous support.
Like you said, Britain was good at making or breaking countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Because I love you guys so much, I've found some information on how Quebec came to be part of the current Canadian federation around 1867.

As you know, there were a bunch of British colonies around this part of the world at the time.

Quebec was called Canada East and was grouped together with Canada West (Ontario) and there was united parliament for this entity. NS, NB and PEI and the others were all separate from the two united "Canadas".

The vote for the Confederation plan was held on March 10, 1865. The united assembly appears to have had its seats evenly divided between Ontario (Canada W) and Quebec (Canada E) with 62 each.

Note that the Quebec deputation had a large number of anglophones (close to a quarter, which reflected the high anglo share of the Quebec population at the time). The Ontario deputation had relatively few francophones in it.

The vote easily passed as almost all of the Ontario members voted for it.

But the vote among the Quebec members of the assembly was 37 to 25 in favour of Confederation.

The francophone vote was 26 to 22 in favour of Confederation.
If you only present the most basic overview, it looks like "Quebec voted democratically to join Canadian confederation". We can do this with any "free election" in Africa or Asia too.

But you dig even just a little bit and it is very obvious that the vote for Confederation in Quebec was a big sham. It wasn't even well hidden. If you read history from a francophone perspective people in Quebec were very aware of this for a long time.

1er juillet: Pourquoi la fête est-elle si triste ? | Le blogue de Jean-François Lisée

Here is an article on how the vote was rigged.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Denmark
74 posts, read 57,807 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
All of the historical records of the era that I have read from this era pretty much point to this exactly.

It wasn't the first time or the last time.

Newfoundland's entry into Confederation in 1949 was also extremely fishy. With an extremely close 50%+1 vote in favour, and no recount ever being done as the ballots were for some reason were all burned the very next day of the vote or something...
Britain wanted their North American colonies to become a country, and it was going to happen.

Newfoundland is another dirty one. The people there talked about joining the United States and Britain said something like "that's not an option". Then when they voted for the wrong outcome than what Britain wanted, they had to vote again. So is that really a free election? It is more like a choosing between two options that someone above you decides are going to be possible. I think if you asked people in Quebec what they really wanted in 1867, it would be an independent country, just like their attempt to make one 30 years earlier indicates.
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