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Old 04-09-2015, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto
1,675 posts, read 1,644,911 times
Reputation: 2902

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I can't even begin to imagine the ****storm it would cause. We don't have a news channel like Fox to rile up the bigots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
This part of the post has been brewing in the back of my head the last few days.

First. Customers DON'T think it's the bakers business. In all the cases like this, it's been the baker or whomever that is making it their business to know. The customers are just being themselves.

Yes, wedding cakes sometimes DO have special decorations that identify whose wedding it is.

Gay people haven't coined the term " gay wedding ". Media and straight people have. Gay people refer to their weddings, as weddings.

I suggest people who think gay people should keep their heads down, try living your life without giving any hints of what your sexuality is.
Take down those photos at work. Don't talk about what you did on the weekend. NEVER answer honestly when asked about a partner etc.

See how long it lasts before you just get fed up with the whole thing...or you are " outed ".

This is not trying to be mean to you Zoiste, but I think your understanding in this area is lacking.

Rant over.
Ty.

The bolded is especially frustrating to explain to a straight person.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,716 posts, read 8,796,725 times
Reputation: 7329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoke View Post
I can't even begin to imagine the ****storm it would cause. We don't have a news channel like Fox to rile up the bigots.



Ty.

The bolded is especially frustrating to explain to a straight person.
True, but to be fair to Zoiste, after some reflection, I think what they meant when they said " what is a gay wedding anyway?" they meant, that a wedding is wedding. So I might be eating a bit of crow with my comment about that bit
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:31 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,323 posts, read 6,625,539 times
Reputation: 14393
Nat, I think we might have to sort of agree to disagree on some of that. In my post that you replied to I was agreeing with the following post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix25
I think openly gay people need to take it down a notch sometimes if they don't want problems. If I were gay I would not be overt about it out in the presence of very religiously conservative people.
The above quoted person is an American who lives in America so I think s/he was making that statement based on the American perspective.

I agree with it because I think LGBT people in America have to deal with more dangerous hostility and spitefulness and more obstacles put in their paths by American very religiously conservative people. Being open wouldn't be such a big issue in Canada because Canadians, even the very religiously conservative Canadians and the LGBT crowd in Canada are less high-strung, more easy going, laid back and have a more accepting, live and let live attitude. At least that has been my experience and observation during my nearly 7 decades living in Canada and growing up with, working, socializing and residing with both LGBT's and thoroughly straight people. Yes, I do know there have been problems for gays in Canada but it still isn't anything like on the scale that American LGBT's have had to deal with. I've seen and heard the openly vicious hatred expressed by many of the very religiously conservative down there and some of them, the things they say and do are unbelievably vile and frightening.

Same sex marriage may be allowed in some states now but it's still only less than half the battle won and the rest of the battle is still uphill all the way. If they (gays in America) want to 'have their cake and eat it too' then I think their first order of the day is to not be cocking a snook throwing cake and flowers in the faces of the very people who have so much contempt and hatred for them.

If I was a gay person in America and wanting to get married and have a cake and flowers and all the other bells and whistles that might go with a wedding - I would thoroughly make enquiries about all available businesses first to find out what their stand is before approaching any of them to do business with them. If I couldn't find a business that was sympathetic to my cause and had nowhere else to go then I would be devious and take up my custom with them by misleading them and keeping them in the dark. It shouldn't have to be that way but until such time as hateful bigots stop being hateful bigots then they need to be dealt with by out-smarting them and do it in such as manner that they don't know they're being out-smarted so that they don't have a chance to retaliate with more viciousness. It's not that hard to out-smart bigots because they're ignorant and what they don't know when they're being out-smarted won't hurt them.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 04-10-2015 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,716 posts, read 8,796,725 times
Reputation: 7329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Nat, I think we might have to sort of agree to disagree on some of that. In my post that you replied to I was agreeing with the following post:


The above quoted person is an American who lives in America so I think s/he was making that statement based on the American perspective.

I agree with it because I think LGBT people in America have to deal with more dangerous hostility and spitefulness and more obstacles put in their paths by American very religiously conservative people. Being open wouldn't be such a big issue in Canada because Canadians, even the very religiously conservative Canadians and the LGBT crowd in Canada are less high-strung, more easy going, laid back and have a more accepting, live and let live attitude. At least that has been my experience and observation during my nearly 7 decades living in Canada and growing up with, working, socializing and residing with both LGBT's and thoroughly straight people. Yes, I do know there have been problems for gays in Canada but it still isn't anything like on the scale that American LGBT's have had to deal with. I've seen and heard the openly vicious hatred expressed by many of the very religiously conservative down there and some of them, the things they say and do are unbelievably vile and frightening.

Same sex marriage may be allowed in some states now but it's still only less than half the battle won and the rest of the battle is still uphill all the way. If they (gays in America) want to 'have their cake and eat it too' then I think their first order of the day is to not be cocking a snook throwing cake and flowers in the faces of the very people who have so much contempt and hatred for them.

If I was a gay person in America and wanting to get married and have a cake and flowers and all the other bells and whistles that might go with a wedding - I would thoroughly make enquiries about all available businesses first to find out what their stand is before approaching any of them to do business with them. If I couldn't find a business that was sympathetic to my cause and had nowhere else to go then I would be devious and take up my custom with them by misleading them and keeping them in the dark. It shouldn't have to be that way but until such time as hateful bigots stop being hateful bigots then they need to be dealt with by out-smarting them and do it in such as manner that they don't know they're being out-smarted. It's not that hard to do and what they don't know won't hurt them.

.
Your concern for the welfare of gay people in the US is admirable, but as any activist will tell you, you don't get anywhere hiding or keeping your head down.
Women didn't keep their heads down, blacks didn't either. Just because gays can disappear into the woodwork doesn't mean they should. If they did, then those incidences of discrimination would not be well known or brought out of the dark. Men told women to stay home in the kitchen. Imagine if they followed your advice above? I don't think the world would look the same.

With my edits.

If I was a black person in America and wanting to get married and have a cake and flowers and all the other bells and whistles that might go with a wedding - I would thoroughly make enquiries about all available businesses first to find out what their stand is before approaching any of them to do business with them. If I couldn't find a business that was sympathetic to my cause and had nowhere else to go then I would be devious and take up my custom with them by misleading them and keeping them in the dark.

Doesn't sound right to me.

Edit: Being gay, black or a women, is not a cause. The gays in the states aren't looking to further their cause when using a business. They just wanted a cake. People shouldn't have to " be devious " to get a service that everyone else enjoys. For me, that would be soul crushing.

Last edited by Natnasci; 04-10-2015 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:53 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,323 posts, read 6,625,539 times
Reputation: 14393
Getting married is a cause. Having the right to be legally married has been a cause.

As a woman I know a lot about causes.

.
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,965 posts, read 27,429,742 times
Reputation: 8626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Your concern for the welfare of gay people in the US is admirable, but as any activist will tell you, you don't get anywhere hiding or keeping your head down.
Women didn't keep their heads down, blacks didn't either. Just because gays can disappear into the woodwork doesn't mean they should. If they did, then those incidences of discrimination would not be well known or brought out of the dark. Men told women to stay home in the kitchen. Imagine if they followed your advice above? I don't think the world would look the same.

With my edits.

If I was a black person in America and wanting to get married and have a cake and flowers and all the other bells and whistles that might go with a wedding - I would thoroughly make enquiries about all available businesses first to find out what their stand is before approaching any of them to do business with them. If I couldn't find a business that was sympathetic to my cause and had nowhere else to go then I would be devious and take up my custom with them by misleading them and keeping them in the dark.

Doesn't sound right to me.

Edit: Being gay, black or a women, is not a cause. The gays in the states aren't looking to further their cause when using a business. They just wanted a cake.
Yeah, I think you're.

There is a (noble) tendency among some people to think that you're "getting them" in a subtle, more effective way by working "underground" and "behind the scenes", but that's rarely the case.
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,323 posts, read 6,625,539 times
Reputation: 14393
Nat, a question for you. Are you a gay activist?

.
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,716 posts, read 8,796,725 times
Reputation: 7329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Getting married is a cause. Having the right to be legally married has been a cause.

As a woman I know a lot about causes.

.
The rights, yes, are a cause. However, when a women walks into a bakery to order a cake, is she furthering her cause as a women? Of course not. Either are gay people.
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,716 posts, read 8,796,725 times
Reputation: 7329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Nat, a question for you. Are you a gay activist?

.
LOL. This is actually quite funny. Is someone an activist because they support peoples rights? Is a male who supports women's rights, but does nothing about it, an activist?
You're going to have to define activist for me.

As for one who hates injustices, yes, I truly do.
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,716 posts, read 8,796,725 times
Reputation: 7329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah, I think you're.

There is a (noble) tendency among some people to think that you're "getting them" in a subtle, more effective way by working "underground" and "behind the scenes", but that's rarely the case.
You've lost me Acajack. What are you saying??
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