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Old 11-11-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,782,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
They have similar climate, surroundings, architecture, and vibe. They both have the PNW standoffishness and introversion. Both have huge outdoorsy feel. There are certainly many similarities.

Yes there are differences. Seattle is much bigger, richer and more corporate. Vancouver is much more Asian, condo-oriented and space-constrained. But they're, overall, more alike than different.
I never said there were not any similarities. I simply disagree with the assertion that the cities are similar to the degree that some here are saying.

Vancouver has a totally different vibe. Walking down a downtown street in Seattle, feels nothing like walking downtown in Vancouver.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:55 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,077,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I never said there were not any similarities. I simply disagree with the assertion that the cities are similar to the degree that some here are saying.

Vancouver has a totally different vibe. Walking down a downtown street in Seattle, feels nothing like walking downtown in Vancouver.
.....depends on what part of Seattle downtown you walk.....
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:08 PM
 
9,701 posts, read 7,271,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I never said there were not any similarities. I simply disagree with the assertion that the cities are similar to the degree that some here are saying.

Vancouver has a totally different vibe. Walking down a downtown street in Seattle, feels nothing like walking downtown in Vancouver.
I feel like Canadian city centers, in general, are distinct from American city centers. To generalize, Canadian cores have more commieblock and glassy condo towers, less monumental architecture, more vibrant and messy feel. U.S. cores are grander, more sparse and a bit less lived-in.

So I agree the cores feel a bit different, and reflect the national differences. But I still think the cities, overall, are more alike than different. Both have tons of educated, outdoorsy, introverted WASP types, and climate and surroundings are basically the same.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:14 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,077,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Both have tons of educated, outdoorsy, introverted WASP types, and climate and surroundings are basically the same.
Not to mention the fact that Seattle Asian population is growing at a torrid pace (at least from casual observation).
Today, for example, at Costco in 4th Ave in Seattle running into people speaking Mandarin was as easy as running into someone speaking English...
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:34 AM
 
1,955 posts, read 1,950,922 times
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I've extensively streetviewed Canada and visited quite a few American cities for real and although Canadian cities may superficially resemble American cities in building style in the end are nothing like American cities at all. Canadian cities have much less crime, much less blight, are much cleaner, better maintained, more organized, and generally more developed. Overall Canada is much more affluent than the US.

An example of twin cities being nothing alike are Niagara Falls ON vs Niagara Falls NY. The Canadian city is ok while the American city has lots of blight, crime and poverty and generally looks like the hood. Also, Chicago is nothing like Toronto, Chicago crime rates are way too high to be comparable to Toronto. And the hoods in South Chicago is nothing like Toronto which is much richer and more developed.

Seattle being reasonably developed and low crime is probably most comparable to Canadian cities like Vancouver.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:34 AM
 
3,236 posts, read 1,568,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
I've extensively streetviewed Canada and visited quite a few American cities for real and although Canadian cities may superficially resemble American cities in building style in the end are nothing like American cities at all. Canadian cities have much less crime, much less blight, are much cleaner, better maintained, more organized, and generally more developed. Overall Canada is much more affluent than the US.

An example of twin cities being nothing alike are Niagara Falls ON vs Niagara Falls NY. The Canadian city is ok while the American city has lots of blight, crime and poverty and generally looks like the hood. Also, Chicago is nothing like Toronto, Chicago crime rates are way too high to be comparable to Toronto. And the hoods in South Chicago is nothing like Toronto which is much richer and more developed.

Seattle being reasonably developed and low crime is probably most comparable to Canadian cities like Vancouver.
You see crime in street-view staycations from Germany? But you do love viewing areas in blighted degrees. So you actually enjoy it. I've never seen you comment on Mexico City slums or Rio to Asian cities? You seem to love American industrial (still rusting remnants) and of course blighted or ghetto areas.
You already said the only reason you would visit the US again, would be to see Detroit. The abandoned and blighted areas of course. Seemed to be a great disappointment to you that Chicago tore down its high-rises housing projects. Even posting a a video from the 90s. Gotta watch age. A few years can mean a difference in a old mill or blighted block is still there... or demolished.

But still if someone enjoys viewing such aspects of changing cities good ..... but especially the bad? Then age or dates are irreverent.

American cities having areas of more once vibrant housing now areas poorer populations live. At least mean they are not slums having all the basic into the homes of water, sewer and even street-cleaning services, Parks and these hoods are not always abandoned and very poor shape. Many crime is a key component and not blighted, or at least in total disrepair ands abandoned. Sadly Detroit may have the most abandoned areas. One day a new city will rise.

Canada luckily did not have the radical Racial changes the US cities, especially in the Northern Industrial cites and a faster booming and growing Southern or Sunbelt areas of the US vs the Northern. The US still has huge demographic changes in the huge influx of Hispanic or Latino populations that entered the US over the decades. Illegally alone? The US has absorbed as many ILLEGGALLY in the US immigrants. As the population of ALL of Canada.

But on topic. The most similar features of these nations cities are the SUBURBAN AREAS. Cities in eras they grew differ much more. I do believe older areas of Canadian Eastern cities? Are more like Northeastern US cities then US Midwestern ones in neighborhood housing to street-grid. Toronto's older neighborhoods? Will be more similar to Philly's and NYC Borough's then Chicago's. Though Chicago and Toronto get lumped as more TWIN-like. But it is more both hug Great Lakes and skylines sprawl along one. Less neighborhoods (spare me one has no ghetto's Drro).
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:08 AM
 
9,701 posts, read 7,271,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
ICanadian cities have much less crime, much less blight, are much cleaner, better maintained, more organized, and generally more developed. Overall Canada is much more affluent than the US.
This is all obviously absurd.

Median and mean incomes are significantly higher in the U.S., and Canadian city cores tend to be "messier" though more vibrant, apples to apples.

If you compare Toronto's core to, say, that of Chicago, Chicago has a much grander, richer-looking, more monumental core. They aren't even close. Yorkville looks like junk compared to Michigan Ave in Chicago.

That said, Toronto is very vibrant at street level and has activity centers everywhere. And obviously no dead zones or non-go zones as in most American cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
An example of twin cities being nothing alike are Niagara Falls ON vs Niagara Falls NY. The Canadian city is ok while the American city has lots of blight, crime and poverty and generally looks like the hood.
I doubt you've been to these cities. Both are pretty poor and junky. There's plenty of blight on the Canadian side too. Downtown Niagara Falls, ON, if anything, might look worse than its American equivalent.

Also these are both small towns and not really relevant to the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
Also, Chicago is nothing like Toronto, Chicago crime rates are way too high to be comparable to Toronto. And the hoods in South Chicago is nothing like Toronto which is much richer and more developed.
Crime rates have nothing to with relative wealth. Chicago is a significantly bigger/richer metro than Toronto, and looks it.

Yes, there is much higher gun crime in certain Chicago African American hoods, but irrelevant to the visitor. City cores are equally safe.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:01 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,077,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
This is all obviously absurd.

Median and mean incomes are significantly higher in the U.S., and Canadian city cores tend to be "messier" though more vibrant, apples to apples.

If you compare Toronto's core to, say, that of Chicago, Chicago has a much grander, richer-looking, more monumental core. They aren't even close. Yorkville looks like junk compared to Michigan Ave in Chicago.

That said, Toronto is very vibrant at street level and has activity centers everywhere. And obviously no dead zones or non-go zones as in most American cities.

I doubt you've been to these cities. Both are pretty poor and junky. There's plenty of blight on the Canadian side too. Downtown Niagara Falls, ON, if anything, might look worse than its American equivalent.

Also these are both small towns and not really relevant to the discussion.


Crime rates have nothing to with relative wealth. Chicago is a significantly bigger/richer metro than Toronto, and looks it.

Yes, there is much higher gun crime in certain Chicago African American hoods, but irrelevant to the visitor. City cores are equally safe.
I agree....drro comments are absurd.....they are the proof that younactually need to visit a country and not just using google tools....
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:52 AM
BMI
 
Location: Ontario
7,266 posts, read 4,524,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
This is all obviously absurd.

Median and mean incomes are significantly higher in the U.S., and Canadian city cores tend to be "messier" though more vibrant, apples to apples.

If you compare Toronto's core to, say, that of Chicago, Chicago has a much grander, richer-looking, more monumental core. They aren't even close. Yorkville looks like junk compared to Michigan Ave in Chicago.

That said, Toronto is very vibrant at street level and has activity centers everywhere. And obviously no dead zones or non-go zones as in most American cities.

I doubt you've been to these cities. Both are pretty poor and junky. There's plenty of blight on the Canadian side too. Downtown Niagara Falls, ON, if anything, might look worse than its American equivalent.

Also these are both small towns and not really relevant to the discussion.


Crime rates have nothing to with relative wealth. Chicago is a significantly bigger/richer metro than Toronto, and looks it.

Yes, there is much higher gun crime in certain Chicago African American hoods, but irrelevant to the visitor. City cores are equally safe.
Do want to point out that those grand wide boulevards have a lot to do with city planning.
Paris, for example, some of itís wide boulevards are a result of back when Napoleon,
who was essentially a dictator, wanted Paris to look very grand, so parts of the city were rebuilt.
London, no Napoleon like dictator, hence much narrower streets, no grand boulevards,
However, London is still a rich vibrant city, every bit the equal of Paris. Just built form is different.
Same for Toronto, no one back in the day dictated grand wide boulevards, that is why
Toronto only has one Chicago-like wide boulevard.....University Ave.
By comparison Torontoís main drag, Yonge Street, is quite narrow and non descript.
Doesnít mean that Toronto is poorsville and Chicago so rich.
Iím sure youíll trot out GDP figures and such. Chicago is a bigger city and itís GDP is measured
at gigantic CSA level making it look double that of Toronto.
Donít worry Toronto and Torontonions are quite well off. Average home is almost triple
that of Chicago. For example my house is worth about $1.5 million, a similar home as mine
in a typical Chicago suburb would more in the $500,000 range.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:50 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,286,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI View Post
Do want to point out that those grand wide boulevards have a lot to do with city planning.
Paris, for example, some of itís wide boulevards are a result of back when Napoleon,
who was essentially a dictator, wanted Paris to look very grand, so parts of the city were rebuilt.
London, no Napoleon like dictator, hence much narrower streets, no grand boulevards,
However, London is still a rich vibrant city, every bit the equal of Paris. Just built form is different.
Same for Toronto, no one back in the day dictated grand wide boulevards, that is why
Toronto only has one Chicago-like wide boulevard.....University Ave.
By comparison Torontoís main drag, Yonge Street, is quite narrow and non descript.
Doesnít mean that Toronto is poorsville and Chicago so rich.
Iím sure youíll trot out GDP figures and such. Chicago is a bigger city and itís GDP is measured
at gigantic CSA level making it look double that of Toronto.
Donít worry Toronto and Torontonions are quite well off. Average home is almost triple
that of Chicago. For example my house is worth about $1.5 million, a similar home as mine
in a typical Chicago suburb would more in the $500,000 range.
It doesn't matter why, dictator or king, good looking cities are just good looking and will remain to be more attractive. Chicago simply looks far more grander than Toronto and nothing can change that. Even University Ave can't dream of comparing wit Michigan Ave. It is simply wide, but in a boring way with very few impressive architecture or landscaping. People keep saying Toronto is not attractive because of history, sure of course, but who cares. Everything is because of history. I don't care if Napoleon III evicted a million people to make Paris pretty. What matters is it IS pretty.

I agree GDP etc don't really mean much, however, is higher property price worth boasting about? My brother's moderate three bedroom apartment 45 minutes from downtown Shanghai is worth more than C$2M today (it is actually looks old and tired, not upscale whatsoever), and a new built condo in central Shanghai nowadays starts at C$2,000/sf, making even the most luxury condo such as Ritz Carlton or Four Seasons in downtown Toronto look dirt cheap. Does that mean the people are enjoying far better lives? You really think Toronto housing price is that high? Do high property prices make people rich in general?

Median household income is US$66,000 in Chicago, compared with C$69,000 family income in Toronto. So Chicagoan actually make more money while enjoying considerably lower housing costs. I'd say it is a good thing. If there were a city with Chicago's income, job market and housing price in Canada, people would leave Toronto in droves (yes, even with Chicago's crime rate).
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