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View Poll Results: Should Canada accept American refugees in some cases?
Yes, some Americans suffer to the point of needing refuge abroad 14 31.82%
No, even the worst off Americans aren't bad off enough to need to come to Canada 30 68.18%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2015, 10:09 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,754,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I know, but if you look at the poll results it's obvious that he/she isn't the only one. I find it very disturbing. How in god's name did these people get these kinds of unrealistic ideas about Canada?

.
Lol hmmm i wonder....
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:33 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,322 posts, read 6,625,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Lol hmmm i wonder....
Well, how about you explain it then.

.
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Old 06-08-2015, 11:13 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,189,911 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I know, but if you look at the poll results it's obvious that he/she isn't the only one. I find it very disturbing. How in god's name did these people get these kinds of unrealistic ideas about Canada? .
First off, one should never believe anything one reads on city-data.

But I think I know where these people are coming from, as someone who's lived in both countries. There are a number of people in the U.S. who view Canada thru extremely rose-colo(u)red glasses, when one sees some of the memes that get mentioned. E.g. everyone in Canada is polite, we are multi-cultural to the point of being the first society that is free of prejudice, we have no self-serving politicians, we're all well educated environmentalists, etc. Of course, Americans seldom see our daily news, or understand that we do have controversies. Yes, we have homelessness, drug problems, gangs and mafia, police profiling ("carding") and militancy (even here in Victoria). We struggle with the impacts of residential schooling, something that not everyone in our society wants to recognize, and we celebrate our own historic steps forward in civil rights. Here in BC, our provincial health services don't even cover badly needed mental health services. But Americans are not seeing our local news. They probably have not read about the Montreal police teargasing protesters, nor know who Rob Ford is, but they may have seen the (likely fake) facebook post of a happy Toronto police officer in a water-gun fight with cafegoers or perhaps have heard of the "maple syrup mafia".

And of course we all know about the period in our history when Canada did the right thing and legalized the status of Americans running away from an unjust war. While not technically refugees, many of these folks went on to contribute to Canadian society - there used to be a page about this on the Citizenship and Immigration Canada site prior to the Harper majority.

On the other hand, we do all see the U.S. news. As important as it is to understand what's happening, the news doesn't reflect most people's reality. So, we see African-Americans in public housing in the grittiest inner cities, and we don't realize that a) most African-Americans are employed, b) most are working/middle class, and c) most places aren't like inner city Baltimore. I do not mean in any way to minimize the impacts of historic discrimination, the wrongness of racial profiling, the militarization of police forces, & etc. But as someone who grew up in very diverse locales, I am also aware that for people who didn't share my experience, the media may be serving to reinforce stereotypes.

So, some people think, if you are poor and face racial profiling, why not move to Canada? What they don't consider is that in Toronto, minorities also face "carding" (kudos to Mayor Tory for calling for its end); or that one need not move to Canada to get health insurance - most any state north of the Mason Dixon line offers Medicaid and related programs to people well above the poverty line. Not to say its all the same - Toronto for example is one of the safest cities in North America.

All in all, though, I wouldn't brace for an onslaught of refugees fueled by the reading of city-date.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:23 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,322 posts, read 6,625,539 times
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Good post DocWatson.

.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:40 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,754,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Well, how about you explain it then.

.
Because you are obviously lying and its the truth!! it is that much nicer up there!
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:41 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,754,378 times
Reputation: 9029
Quote:
Originally Posted by docwatson View Post
First off, one should never believe anything one reads on city-data.

But I think I know where these people are coming from, as someone who's lived in both countries. There are a number of people in the U.S. who view Canada thru extremely rose-colo(u)red glasses, when one sees some of the memes that get mentioned. E.g. everyone in Canada is polite, we are multi-cultural to the point of being the first society that is free of prejudice, we have no self-serving politicians, we're all well educated environmentalists, etc. Of course, Americans seldom see our daily news, or understand that we do have controversies. Yes, we have homelessness, drug problems, gangs and mafia, police profiling ("carding") and militancy (even here in Victoria). We struggle with the impacts of residential schooling, something that not everyone in our society wants to recognize, and we celebrate our own historic steps forward in civil rights. Here in BC, our provincial health services don't even cover badly needed mental health services. But Americans are not seeing our local news. They probably have not read about the Montreal police teargasing protesters, nor know who Rob Ford is, but they may have seen the (likely fake) facebook post of a happy Toronto police officer in a water-gun fight with cafegoers or perhaps have heard of the "maple syrup mafia".
This one is my favorite

Spoiler


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Old 06-09-2015, 09:04 AM
 
18,357 posts, read 10,422,876 times
Reputation: 13427
Quote:
Originally Posted by docwatson View Post
First off, one should never believe anything one reads on city-data.

But I think I know where these people are coming from, as someone who's lived in both countries. There are a number of people in the U.S. who view Canada thru extremely rose-colo(u)red glasses, when one sees some of the memes that get mentioned. E.g. everyone in Canada is polite, we are multi-cultural to the point of being the first society that is free of prejudice, we have no self-serving politicians, we're all well educated environmentalists, etc. Of course, Americans seldom see our daily news, or understand that we do have controversies. Yes, we have homelessness, drug problems, gangs and mafia, police profiling ("carding") and militancy (even here in Victoria). We struggle with the impacts of residential schooling, something that not everyone in our society wants to recognize, and we celebrate our own historic steps forward in civil rights. Here in BC, our provincial health services don't even cover badly needed mental health services. But Americans are not seeing our local news. They probably have not read about the Montreal police teargasing protesters, nor know who Rob Ford is, but they may have seen the (likely fake) facebook post of a happy Toronto police officer in a water-gun fight with cafegoers or perhaps have heard of the "maple syrup mafia".

And of course we all know about the period in our history when Canada did the right thing and legalized the status of Americans running away from an unjust war. While not technically refugees, many of these folks went on to contribute to Canadian society - there used to be a page about this on the Citizenship and Immigration Canada site prior to the Harper majority.

On the other hand, we do all see the U.S. news. As important as it is to understand what's happening, the news doesn't reflect most people's reality. So, we see African-Americans in public housing in the grittiest inner cities, and we don't realize that a) most African-Americans are employed, b) most are working/middle class, and c) most places aren't like inner city Baltimore. I do not mean in any way to minimize the impacts of historic discrimination, the wrongness of racial profiling, the militarization of police forces, & etc. But as someone who grew up in very diverse locales, I am also aware that for people who didn't share my experience, the media may be serving to reinforce stereotypes.

So, some people think, if you are poor and face racial profiling, why not move to Canada? What they don't consider is that in Toronto, minorities also face "carding" (kudos to Mayor Tory for calling for its end); or that one need not move to Canada to get health insurance - most any state north of the Mason Dixon line offers Medicaid and related programs to people well above the poverty line. Not to say its all the same - Toronto for example is one of the safest cities in North America.

All in all, though, I wouldn't brace for an onslaught of refugees fueled by the reading of city-date.
I like this one.

It doesn't however, mention the legions of Americans who are knowledgeable about Canada and do not read or post on C/D.

Those folks vastly outnumber the two polarized groups with opposing viewpoints (one scathing, the other rosy) in much the same way as our inundation with only the news from those networks taking their marching orders from either of the two political spectrums of America.

Believe it or not there are a majority of Americans who are more than able to view Canada dispassionately from any angle, pro or against, and also their own political machinations with a jaundiced eye, contrary to what we would be likely to believe by perusing just these boards.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:28 PM
 
3,751 posts, read 3,731,432 times
Reputation: 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I know, but if you look at the poll results it's obvious that he/she isn't the only one. I find it very disturbing. How in god's name did these people get these kinds of unrealistic ideas about Canada?

.
How did you get unrealistic ideas about the US being a better and more advanced country than Canada? The US is a third world country with a first world face. And yes you're right about being homeless in Canada, but I was referring to people in general. In the US, one missed car repair or sickness can ruin you for life, even if you already have a home. In Canada (in the cities anyway for the former) you could still rely on public transit and national care. In the US most cities don't have adequate transit for commuting from place to place, not even darling Portlandia.

I just don't seem that same degree of class warfare in Canada that I do in the US, nor the same degree of racial persecution. You don't have Canadian cops massacring the black population, and while Canada's treatment of the First Nations is not enviable, I can't say that the US treats them better. If anything it seems like they at least get more recognition up in Canada, while here in America many people still believe the Thankstaking fable.

I'm not saying Canada is perfect, but I'm very familiar with your country and I can't help but envy you guys a bit. It's not like I haven't been to Canada, I've been there probably a month total combined out of the past four years and it's hard to deny that the average Canadian is happier, more prosperous and less over-worked than the average American.

Shame your PM seems so hell-bent on changing that, though!
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:39 PM
 
3,751 posts, read 3,731,432 times
Reputation: 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by docwatson View Post

So, some people think, if you are poor and face racial profiling, why not move to Canada? What they don't consider is that in Toronto, minorities also face "carding" (kudos to Mayor Tory for calling for its end); or that one need not move to Canada to get health insurance - most any state north of the Mason Dixon line offers Medicaid and related programs to people well above the poverty line. Not to say its all the same - Toronto for example is one of the safest cities in North America.

All in all, though, I wouldn't brace for an onslaught of refugees fueled by the reading of city-date.
Thing is, Medicaid pretty much sucks. It's better than nothing, but not by a whole lot. And while "carding" is indeed unfortunate, at least Canadian cops aren't massacring black and homeless people en masse up there! In parts of the US the "Stand Your Ground" law pretty much has made duels and revenge murders legal.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:51 PM
 
Location: East Coast
678 posts, read 695,045 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less View Post
. In Canada (in the cities anyway for the former) you could still rely on public transit and national care. In the US most cities don't have adequate transit for commuting from place to place, not even darling Portlandia.
This is ridiculous. There are 2.5 cities in Canada where this is true. The rest of them are just like American cities in this regard...

Not to mention there are at least six or seven American cities where living car free is fairly straightforward.
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