U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-15-2019, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
You lost a war, if I recall correctly, in 1763. Something about Montcalm and Wolfe, on the Plains of Abraham? I took up jogging there for the first time while visiting Quebec from the New York area, but I digress.

Losing a war has consequences. Just ask Japan or the "Palestinians." Or the Germans for that matter.
This is true, strictu sensu. But in the real world (especially the modern world) things are more complicated than just saying "we won the war so we can just do what we want with you".


Depending on your point of view, the British handled the conquered people of New France rather well or rather badly.


What cannot be questioned though is that their handling of things led to a collective consciousness and distinctiveness among the conquered French descendants that persists rather strongly to this day.


So regardless of what transpired in 1759-1763, it's a reality that needs to be taken into account in basically all matters related to this part of the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-15-2019, 08:51 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,504 posts, read 6,512,900 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
This is true, strictu sensu. But in the real world (especially the modern world) things are more complicated than just saying "we won the war so we can just do what we want with you".
That point of view is perhaps very post-1947 U.N. but with that view wars would never actually end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Depending on your point of view, the British handled the conquered people of New France rather well or rather badly.

What cannot be questioned though is that their handling of things led to a collective consciousness and distinctiveness among the conquered French descendants that persists rather strongly to this day.
Of necessity it was gentle since there were almost as many French as English colonists, especially north of the then non-existent Canadian border. The British didn't have the stomach for a Serbian-style ethnic cleansing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
So regardless of what transpired in 1759-1763, it's a reality that needs to be taken into account in basically all matters related to this part of the world.
The reason that separation became interesting, in my view, was the spread of the "subsidy mentality." Prior to the U.N.'s founding countries, economically, had to sink or swim. The leaders of the new countries often became quite wealthy, even if the average people did not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 09:02 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,625 posts, read 6,799,004 times
Reputation: 15117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post


What cannot be questioned though is that their handling of things led to a collective consciousness and distinctiveness among the conquered French descendants that persists rather strongly to this day.

So regardless of what transpired in 1759-1763, it's a reality that needs to be taken into account in basically all matters related to this part of the world.

Are you trying to politely say it's a grudge?
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Are you trying to politely say it's a grudge?
.
No, I am not saying that all. I am actually a bit mystified that someone would read that into what I wrote.


Existing as "yourself" and being conscious of that fact isn't related to having grudges against others or not.


So all human identities are based on grudges now?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 10:36 AM
 
67 posts, read 23,586 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
That point of view is perhaps very post-1947 U.N. but with that view wars would never actually end.
But your point of view ("we won the war, so we can do what you want with you") comes with the corollary "sure, but if we dislike what you're trying to do to us, we will try and rebel against it in a number of ways".

Both are fair game, under your view.

So yeah, "we lost a war", but we still had plenty of options available, some of which we used already and others we're currently using and others we haven't used yet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,504 posts, read 6,512,900 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
So yeah, "we lost a war", but we still had plenty of options available, some of which we used already and others we're currently using and others we haven't used yet.
If the response to those "options" is military you might not like it too much. Remember the FLQ rebellion in 1970?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
If the response to those "options" is military you might not like it too much. Remember the FLQ rebellion in 1970?
You're not discussing things honestly and intelligently right now. Normally you're better than this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 10:50 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,504 posts, read 6,512,900 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You're not discussing things honestly and intelligently right now. Normally you're better than this.
What's not honest? And remember my IQ is 79; there are limits.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post

The reason that separation became interesting, in my view, was the spread of the "subsidy mentality." Prior to the U.N.'s founding countries, economically, had to sink or swim. The leaders of the new countries often became quite wealthy, even if the average people did not.
I've been following politics and current affairs for about 40 years and been discussing them for about 30 years.


Spent countless hours debating with pro- and anti-independence people from Quebec, Scotland, Catalonia, Flanders... you name it.


In all those hours of discussion I can honestly say that no one has ever said that independence was low-risk from an economic/financial perspective because the international community would always be there to offer a bailout.


Never. Zero. Nada. Zilch.


Here in Quebec in particular the economic/financial argument has always been, rightly or wrongly, the Achilles heel of the independence movement.


As Quebec has become more confident in its abilities and prospects, this has become a bit less of an issue that people will use against the separatists. Though ironically Quebec's relatively good economic fortunes have made many people less angry about their "situation", and therefore has taken much of the wind out of the separatist sails.


But I challenge anyone to find a quote from a Quebec separatist politician saying that we can afford to become independent because, anyway, the UN, the World Bank, the IMF, etc. will bail us out if we run into trouble.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post

Of necessity it was gentle since there were almost as many French as English colonists, especially north of the then non-existent Canadian border. The British didn't have the stomach for a Serbian-style ethnic cleansing.
.

The British did do that to the Acadians in what is today Nova Scotia.


There were reasons why it was not possible in the St Lawrence Valley, as the French colonists were too numerous, too spread out, and there were other strategic reasons to not stir things up there in the 1770s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top