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Old 08-15-2019, 06:41 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,478 posts, read 6,503,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Equalization (at least for Quebec) would be dead in the water if Quebec became independent.


But there would be plenty of other stuff to negotiate like the national debt, how freely goods and people would flow between the two countries, citizenship (dual or not), matters of trade and taxation, currency, public service employees and pensions, the rights of indigenous peoples, etc.
Good menu. But as far as equalization isn't that an offset to Quebec paying for 20-25% of infrastructure in the ROC?
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:43 PM
 
527 posts, read 358,666 times
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We had a foreign exchange student who was really mad that his passport said 'If found return to British embassy.' grrrrr
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:25 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,613 posts, read 6,792,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_w View Post
We had a foreign exchange student who was really mad that his passport said 'If found return to British embassy.' grrrrr

That's a really strange thing to get mad about. It makes no sense. Why would he be mad about that when he should be happy about having his lost passport safely returned to him.
.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:46 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,478 posts, read 6,503,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The bolded raises a good question. Part of the reason Quebec has been allowed to hold two votes on secession is what I alluded to earlier: the feds were always convinced they'd win up until that point.

Another reason is guilt. I'd say there were two forms of guilt at play. One in 1980 and one 1995.

In 1980 there was still quite a bit of guilt or at least sympathy among Anglo-Canadians that French Canadians had gotten a raw deal in the federation. People were not supportive of separation and hoped for a Non win but a lot of people understood the reason for the flirtation with independence.

By 1995 francophones' fortunes (and that of their language) had improved quite a bit and some of the guilt about the raw deal had evaporated, but a few years before we'd had the failure of the Meech Lake accord which was meant as an olive branch to Quebec to get it to sign onto the Constitution. Meech's failure was seen by most everyone inside and also some people outside Quebec, as a slap in the face to Quebec. Perhaps there was a bit of resignation as well à la "well, maybe we aren't meant to share a country with Quebec after all?" The federal and non-Québécois political classes in Canada were also a bit at a loss for words and bereft of ideas at the time, which left the door open for another referendum without much of anyone (credible) questioning why we had to go through this again.
Thanks. I had forgotten about Meech and Charlottetown. I cannot conceive of anywhere else that a unit of a country would be allowed to hold a "referendum" on secession, except for unique situations such as the modern shotgun (literally) marriage that created Czechoslovakia out of the rump of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. I thought the overall concept of secession was settled, except in rare cases, at Appomattox Courthouse, Virginia. Or maybe Gettysburg or Antietam.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,294 posts, read 27,761,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Good menu. But as far as equalization isn't that an offset to Quebec paying for 20-25% of infrastructure in the ROC?
Not sure how the two would be related. There is certainly no administrative or political relationship there.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:34 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,478 posts, read 6,503,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Not sure how the two would be related. There is certainly no administrative or political relationship there.
What I wonder is why should Quebec get the past advantages from being in Canada for free?
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,294 posts, read 27,761,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
What I wonder is why should Quebec get the past advantages from being in Canada for free?
What do you mean "for free"? You make it sound like people in Quebec don't pay federal taxes.


Going back in history, in the years before the 1867 Confederation, Canada East (now Quebec) and Canada West (Ontario) were merged in order that Canada East (pretty much debt free at the time) could take on a share of Canada West's debts, which were huge and crippling. So yeah, in the early days of the Canadian union, Quebec paid off Ontario's debts, or at least took on a huge chunk of them when Quebec itself didn't have much debt. These debts taken on by Canada West (Ontario) and paid for in large part by the ancestors of today's Quebecers, laid the infrastructure, etc. foundations of today's powerhouse Ontario.


Also, money mostly from Quebec and Ontario laid/paid for the foundations for much of Canada's expansion on the Prairies of the West. Especially Alberta and Saskatchewan.


These two central Canadian provinces (governments and people) also funded bailouts and assistance (in some case averting large-scale human death) multiple times in the first half of the 20th century when these regions were hard-hit by droughts.


Canadian historical knowledge! Very useful when debating!
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,730 posts, read 11,237,785 times
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I think he meant post-independence. Why would nouveau-Canada be willing to support the New Quebec in any fashion without some compensation in return.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,294 posts, read 27,761,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I think he meant post-independence. Why would nouveau-Canada be willing to support the New Quebec in any fashion without some compensation in return.
International law/precedents for starters.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,730 posts, read 11,237,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
International law/precedents for starters.
Not my original question, but I would be interested to see that law. Last time I checked both South Sudan and East Timor essentially got either war or f u from their previous nations, and the only support is from foreign aid or the UN. They certainly weren't obligated to continue paying for an independent nation's existence.

That's the other side of that double edged blade.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be multiple layers of support, but it's not an obligation.
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