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Old 08-20-2019, 01:33 AM
 
Location: Montreal
484 posts, read 297,940 times
Reputation: 379

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Yes, that's what's known as a "Westminster parliamentary system." If you want an American republican form of government, then just say so. And work towards such. Unless and until I see "PBeauchamp" heading rallies and protests to free us from a Westminster system, and pointing us towards a US Constitutional system, I'll pay your comments no heed.

Neither should anybody else. 'Nuff said for now.
Chevyspoons, who said anything about an "American-style" system?

Is it possible that Canadians would be able to create our own government, instead of the one forced onto us by the British throne?

Canada is changing fast. Only 1/3 of millenials support keeping the monarchy, so the question isn't if the monarchy will be abolished, it is a question of what will replace it.

Perhaps it will be a golden opportunity to reform the entire Canadian government.

Look at a multilingual country like Switzerland, Chevyspoons.

They get along just fine and regular people created their own government.

Why is that so threatening?
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,264 posts, read 1,806,452 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Chevyspoons, who said anything about an "American-style" system?
You did. In democratic systems, where people vote for their representatives, you either follow a Westminster parliament. or you follow a US republic.

Which do you choose?
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Montreal
484 posts, read 297,940 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
You did. In democratic systems, where people vote for their representatives, you either follow a Westminster parliament. or you follow a US republic.

Which do you choose?
Come on Chevyspoons, that is simply not true.

Does France follow a Westminster style system or an American system?

Neither one, of course.

This USA or British mentality is very colonial and holding us back.

We are capable of creating a truly Canadian system.
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,941 posts, read 10,010,132 times
Reputation: 10145
FYI : Americans are promised a republican form, not a democratic form. In a republican form, all men have Creator endowed rights that governments are instituted to secure [see: Declaration of Independence, 1776]. No democratic majority can vote away minority endowed rights.
BUT, the government that secures rights is populated by citizens who have surrendered their endowment by virtue of mandatory civic duties (remember, the Founders pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor - and citizens are presumed to have done likewise). Citizenship is always voluntary.

In other countries, like Canada, the people are subjects of their respective sovereign [Queen Elizabeth II]. Whatever form of government is in power, the people are not.
In America, the people are "sovereigns without subjects" and the government is their servant, not their master. This is why Americans do not bow nor kneel to foreign monarchs - we're social and legal equals. And why "common" Americans can marry foreign nobility without violating their local laws banning such marriages.

SOVEREIGNS WITHOUT SUBJECTS
“... at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects, and have none to govern but themselves. . .
“... In Europe, the sovereignty is generally ascribed to the Prince; here, it rests with the people; there, the sovereign actually administers the government; here, never in a single instance; our Governors are the agents of the [sovereign] people, and, at most, stand in the same relation to their sovereign in which regents in Europe stand to their sovereigns.”
- - - Justice John Jay, Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. 2 Dall. 419 419 (1793)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...CR_0002_0419_Z
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,345 posts, read 27,836,664 times
Reputation: 8754
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
You did. In democratic systems, where people vote for their representatives, you either follow a Westminster parliament. or you follow a US republic.

Which do you choose?
I don't believe that in terms of democracies it's a binary choice between the UK and US systems. There are plenty of alternatives to them out there that are also democratic - in some cases probably moreso than ours.


First-past-the-post isn't very democratic in fact and relatively few political scientists would argue that it is optimal at least in this respect.
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Québec
69 posts, read 18,723 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Come on Chevyspoons, that is simply not true.

Does France follow a Westminster style system or an American system?

Neither one, of course.

This USA or British mentality is very colonial and holding us back.

We are capable of creating a truly Canadian system.
I would also like to know what Chevyspoons is talking about.

Like do people in Germany have a Westminister style government or a USA style government?

I don't think that's true.
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:02 PM
 
18,599 posts, read 10,616,910 times
Reputation: 13644
Well let's see, this writer for the Science ABC publications has a bit of an interesting, sometime amusing, "Cole's Notes" type of explanation for the various types of "democracies" in existence today.

https://www.scienceabc.com/social-sc...iamentary.html
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:21 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,688 posts, read 6,831,299 times
Reputation: 15300
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post


FYI : Americans are promised a republican form, not a democratic form.....

America is a presidential democracy.


.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Ontario
67 posts, read 56,746 times
Reputation: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
That's a good question, mikeycc, but the ROC takes a plethora of actions which make little sense for themselves.

I wouldn't even be shocked if a Quebec-less Canada continued to cater to Quebec in the event of independence.

After all, they willingly play junior-partner to the U.S. even when it doesn't benefit them.

The truth is that the government of Canada barely represents the typical anglo Canadian, and most anglo Canadians simply take it, or even defend it.

Look at Canada currently!

An unelected senate.

An unelected governor general.

Unelected party leaders, designated by the party.

Prime ministers winning with support of 30-something percent of the population.

It's not a bad position for Quebec to be in because we are effectively asserting autonomy. We should be more than grateful for all we have.

But realistically speaking, mikeycc and company, how does that make sense for a province like Alberta?

Nonetheless, they will stick with it, because it's what's been given to them and that's the Canadian way.

Maintain the status quo and keep things the same. Some even gloat "if it ain't boke, don't fix it". As if that is an honorable mentality.
Damn I never even thought about that. That's....interesting.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:17 AM
 
18,599 posts, read 10,616,910 times
Reputation: 13644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Yes, that's what's known as a "Westminster parliamentary system." If you want an American republican form of government, then just say so. And work towards such. Unless and until I see "PBeauchamp" heading rallies and protests to free us from a Westminster system, and pointing us towards a US Constitutional system, I'll pay your comments no heed.

Neither should anybody else. 'Nuff said for now.
Why on earth would they prefer to emulate a system whereby they simply replace a purely ceremonial head of state with one that has all the same pomp and circumstance, but far more along the way of individual power they supposedly despise? A system where the head of state can remain sequestered in their castle, remote from the houses of debate?

Are they even tuning in to watch how Trudeau is currently getting roasted over this SNC Lavalin affair? Here you have an ethics watchdog making a damning report that triggers a tempest of investigation by any number of parliamentarians and all of this under the heading of ETHICS violations. Cripes!

This has the possible ramification of scuppering the incumbent's chances for re-election because he and his office attempted to "influence" an 'appointed-by-himself' attorney generals assessment. They really need to think about that and compare to what they seem willing to accept as a supposedly "superior" form of government. To wit: "Oh, you aren't going to co-operate with me on this and do as I ask ….. you're fired. "Okay, who's willing to agree with my stance and become the next Attorney General." Is that really what they want without any apparent degree of oversight?

Trudeau's demonstrated arrogance, his willingness to accede to a powerful corporate entity and use his office to pressure and pattern an Attorney General's decsion will very likely be his undoing, whereas those attributes and actions would be ignored, or even endorsed elsewhere.

They really do seem to be pining for a return to the Duplessis days.
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