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Old 06-22-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Montreal
359 posts, read 264,885 times
Reputation: 274

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
You're wasting your time with this. These malcontents would not be making this claim had the French thought the colony worthy and spent the money to win the battles.. Then these same boobs would be going "yep we're a REAL country 'cuase after all, we won the wars and we're FRENCH!"

History.. I see certain parallels with the history of Switzerland to being designated "not a country" and being a make believe entity using the proposed faux logic. With four languages, and a widely accepted fifth, with at least three distinct cultures within it's borders and quite happily ALL of them refer to themselves as SWISS. No one constantly whining over considering themselves the redheaded step-child given short shrift by another of their cultures. Even the more dominant culture is accepted and respected thusly.

They arrived at their current juncture in a process "further refined" in the 1800's by agreement to create a STRONGER federal constitution, while at the same time allowing the various cantons self rule.

Imagine that! Would that we were as intelligent.
The Swiss united voluntarily, they aren't the construction of a colonial powers best interests. The French Swiss were never second class to the German Swiss, and Swiss people generally understand that their country is an agreement rather than a "nation". There aren't many parallels to be made between Switzerland and Canada. The better comparison is Belgium.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Montreal
359 posts, read 264,885 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Yeah, but I don't see why people in a young, new world country aren't more open to just trying something kind of new in contrast, and not relying so much on individual culture and specific independence, as much as progressive, more liberal attitudes and policies for people across the board. I don't see why you can't have two very different languages and regions existing peacefully under one relatively loose federal jurisdiction. If anything, it could stand to set a nice example.
Having a mish-mash of people united by only a governmental structure isn't new, it's the way things always were until relatively recently. The idea of a "nation&" united by people who speak the same language, share a history, and share a culture; that is "new". Canada is very old-school in this sense, similar to an old world feudal country united only by loyalty and a loose governmental structure (as the British wanted it to be) instead the new models introduced out by the US, France and Germany.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Montreal
359 posts, read 264,885 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
It is what we are talking about here. PBeauchamp mentions the monarchy as an example of why he believes that we are not a real country.
A totally bogus argument.
Jambo seems to think separation is possible regardless of the legalities, so not all seem to recognize the legality of Canada.
As BruSan has pointed out, other countries have multiple cultures AND languages and yet somehow they are
"real countries".

However none of what people "feel" can change the process of separation as it stands now. The SSC has ruled, we know that Quebec can not just declare independence without dealing with the ROC.
If they did, what other countries would recognize them as such. France? Perhaps.
I get the sense that you and other anglo Canadians want to be American and have what the Americans have.

*cue vehement denial*.

Sorry, but that's how it all comes across. Why not just accept Canada for what it is? Why can't we just be an oddball country that doesn't make a whole lot of sense? There is nothing wrong with that. It's a country of half-American half-Brits, aligning themselves with the original French colonists, living in a cold climate, and governed by a British style government with a European as our head of state. Why do we have to try to be America JR? We aren't that and it just looks ridiculous when we try to do this. IMHO anglo Canadians are too "butthurt" over the fact that Quebecois aren't fervent Canadian nationalists, but why not try seeing it from the other side, that Canada can just be Canada instead of being mired in a sociopathic love-hate anti-American complex and endless anglo vs. franco jousting. I wish we could just say, yes we are Canadian, we don't make sense, we don't have a national culture, but what we do have is a well run country united by consent and common interests and we are happy with that. If anglo Canadians accepted Canada as a political union instead of aspiring to be America JR, regardless of how much it is denied, then Quebec separatism would quickly retreat. But as long as anglo Canadians are fixated on building a subpar America imitation then Quebec separatism will always thrive, just as it does now.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,961 posts, read 27,403,107 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
I get the sense that you and other anglo Canadians want to be American and have what the Americans have.

*cue vehement denial*.

Sorry, but that's how it all comes across. Why not just accept Canada for what it is? Why can't we just be an oddball country that doesn't make a whole lot of sense? There is nothing wrong with that. It's a country of half-American half-Brits, aligning themselves with the original French colonists, living in a cold climate, and governed by a British style government with a European as our head of state. Why do we have to try to be America JR? We aren't that and it just looks ridiculous when we try to do this. IMHO anglo Canadians are too "butthurt" over the fact that Quebecois aren't fervent Canadian nationalists, but why not try seeing it from the other side, that Canada can just be Canada instead of being mired in a sociopathic love-hate anti-American complex and endless anglo vs. franco jousting. I wish we could just say, yes we are Canadian, we don't make sense, we don't have a national culture, but what we do have is a well run country united by consent and common interests and we are happy with that. If anglo Canadians accepted Canada as a political union instead of aspiring to be America JR, regardless of how much it is denied, then Quebec separatism would quickly retreat. But as long as anglo Canadians are fixated on building a subpar America imitation then Quebec separatism will always thrive, just as it does now.
One thing though is that that national trait you are talking about other countries having is developing at a rapid pace in English Canada (has been since the late 80s I would say). If it gets too strong and also uncompromising it's on a collision course with Quebec and also, to a lesser degree, with some aboriginal groups.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,159,858 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Yeah, but I don't see why people in a young, new world country aren't more open to just trying something kind of new in contrast, and not relying so much on individual culture and specific independence, as much as progressive, more liberal attitudes and policies for people across the board. I don't see why you can't have two very different languages and regions existing peacefully under one relatively loose federal jurisdiction. If anything, it could stand to set a nice example.
Totally agree with you Jesse! Hard to teach an old dog new tricks but the old dogs are well getting old or are already dead.. I'm optimistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Any one besides me proud to be a Canadian and view Canada as a real country?
Of course! Could be better but could be a whole heckuva lot worse.... The one's who complain the most about how bad things are - usually those who are the most difficult to work with to make things better! I see nothing much conciliatory about those cut from that cloth..

Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Its funny reading this and than see you guys taking part in the debate only a few hours later
LOL yeah gluttons for punishment we are

Last edited by fusion2; 06-22-2015 at 04:25 PM..
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,961 posts, read 27,403,107 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Any one besides me proud to be a Canadian and view Canada as a real country?
I don't see why posts like these always have to come up when we are simply having frank discussions.

Canada is a very good to excellent country. Anyone with a brain knows that.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't have shortcomings and also that many of its citizens don't have illusions that it is something that it is not.
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:28 AM
 
34,445 posts, read 41,547,959 times
Reputation: 29910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I don't see why posts like these always have to come up when we are simply having frank discussions.

Canada is a very good to excellent country. Anyone with a brain knows that.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't have shortcomings and also that many of its citizens don't have illusions that it is something that it is not.
Sorry for not having a brain but when you start thinking our country is artificial i have to question your motives for marginalizing our country.
Going back to the topics title ,Canada Is a real country in every sense of the word , its a country thats grown to be something to be proud of a concept many francophones just cant accept as that Quebec victim mentality always gets in the way as evidenced in PBs bizarre out pourings in post 63.
Canada may not be perfect but you could do a heck of a lot worse, if you feel like trashing Canada fine but ultimately its your country and its going to be what you make of it.
Excuse me if i find your assurances that "Canada is a very good to excellent country" a rather hollow statement as to date you've never expressed positive sentiments about being a Canadian which is rather an odd attitude if you think your country to be excellent..

Last edited by jambo101; 06-23-2015 at 01:54 AM..
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,180 posts, read 1,757,746 times
Reputation: 2653
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
... and governed by a British style government with a European as our head of state.
PB. you know a couple of things here, and perhaps you ought to admit them:

-- A "British-style" government, is better known as a Westminster parliament. Many countries around the world have them. The UK, Australia, and New Zealand would be the most prominent examples, but you can find others. It works for them.

-- The Queen is Canada's head of state, according to Canada's constitution. She is not "European" or "British" when she acts in Canadian affairs--she is Canadian. You know this, if you are as educated in Canadian constitutional law as you claim to be.

Now, if you feel that, under a republican system, Canada would be better off, you are free to say so. But to claim that Canada has a "British-style government" is to imply that it is still governed by Britain. That is not the case, and you and I both know it. Admit it.
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Old 06-23-2015, 07:19 AM
 
18,330 posts, read 10,403,726 times
Reputation: 13392
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
PB. you know a couple of things here, and perhaps you ought to admit them:

-- A "British-style" government, is better known as a Westminster parliament. Many countries around the world have them. The UK, Australia, and New Zealand would be the most prominent examples, but you can find others. It works for them.

-- The Queen is Canada's head of state, according to Canada's constitution. She is not "European" or "British" when she acts in Canadian affairs--she is Canadian. You know this, if you are as educated in Canadian constitutional law as you claim to be.

Now, if you feel that, under a republican system, Canada would be better off, you are free to say so. But to claim that Canada has a "British-style government" is to imply that it is still governed by Britain. That is not the case, and you and I both know it. Admit it.
That wouldn't fit the narrative of some on here who desire to disseminate fact and turn it into fiction while calling it a "frank discussion" coupled with a pre-emptive admonishment that to challenge that idea indicates nothing more than an addictive tendency towards vehement denial of latent U.S. obsessive disorder.

Next up.....Canada is merely an illusion and we're all just Nort Americanos with some French speaking folks held hostage to give us some distinctive variety.
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Old 06-23-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,961 posts, read 27,403,107 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Next up.....Canada is merely an illusion and we're all just Nort Americanos with some French speaking folks held hostage to give us some distinctive variety.
Pretty funny characterization!
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