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Old 07-29-2015, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,360,351 times
Reputation: 8603

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I became bilingual,raised 2 kids who became bilingual and still we arent considered a legitimate co culture in Quebec,we seem to be lumped in with some passed evil that supposedly Anglos perpetrated on the hapless francophones hundreds of years ago..
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And yet there are so many anglos who are perfectly happy with their lives in Quebec. I had dinner with one last night.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,360,351 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
New York City is entirely different from the U.S. Aside from a few whack-jobs no one's suggesting it secede.

I guess my posts are ignored. What I pointed out is that "independence" is a lot more popular given the amount of multilateral aid floating around. When Canada was fouinded in 1867 Lower Canada a/k/a Quebec was one of the original promoters. They recognized that Quebec was quite viable merged with Upper Canada, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, and alone not viable.

Fast forward to post WW-II. There have been a gaggle of newly "independent" countries. Of those only Israel, South Korea, Singapore, Barbados, India and a few others have a prayer of ever being economically viable. Most of them are sick jokes. Quebec would likely fall in that category since Canada will likely not cooperate with allowing the use of its currency or otherwise providing a safety net.

And oh, by the way, is Quebec ready to pay for those airports, highways, the St. Lawrence Seaway and other infrastructure?
With all due respect, you need to refine your argumentation big time if you want anything more than potshot responses to your posts.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,360,351 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissApril75 View Post
I already did. I quoted it.
Using the UN definition of racism, suggesting the anglos move elsewhere is just as racist as saying a similarly identified group can "go back where they came from."

Nope. It's a United Nations term to describe identifiable groups subject to discriminatory behaviour.

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You're hugely overblowing it.

It's admittedly not a very nice thing to say but he's not telling anyone to leave.

He's saying people who are not happy might consider leaving because the things that make them unhappy are unlikely to change. They might be happier if they left. Of course they obviously still have the right to stay if they want to remain here and be unhappy. That's also a legitimate choice.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:40 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,923 posts, read 6,267,579 times
Reputation: 12380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissApril75 View Post
I already did. I quoted it.
Using the UN definition of racism, suggesting the anglos move elsewhere is just as racist as saying a similarly identified group can "go back where they came from."

Nope. It's a United Nations term to describe identifiable groups subject to discriminatory behaviour.


Just as an aside, I married a woman from Quebec. She, her kids and her mother are all from Longueuil. I lived with them in Longueuil for a year. This language nonsense embarrasses them every time it crops up be it people ejected from buses, books and games banned, English newspaper being delivered on the doorstep in the snow while French papers delivered inside to doors on landings etc etc

We now live in NB where people get along just fine in both languages without all this stupidity.
You're hugely overblowing it.

It's admittedly not a very nice thing to say but he's not telling anyone to leave.

He's saying people who are not happy might consider leaving because the things that make them unhappy are unlikely to change. They might be happier if they left. Of course they obviously still have the right to stay if they want to remain here and be unhappy. That's also a legitimate choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
In the 1970s the FLQ crisis had already happened, the language and separatism issues were red-hot. Worse than today. You made your choice and that's fine, but it's odd that you should complain bitterly about it now.

Anyone could see in those days that Quebec was heading in a direction that would make it a different place from the rest of Canada and the US.

I was a (news-hungry) child at the time living outside Quebec and even I could see it.
With due respect to Francophone politics and culture I think there's a missing element to this discussion. Quebec (f/k/a Lower Canada) has been a part of Canada since, oh, 1763. People from other parts of Canada have the expectation of being able to move there and retain their rights as Canadians.

I do not believe that Quebeckers have the right to subject Anglophone Canadians to tyranny of the (local) majority.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,360,351 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
With due respect to Francophone politics and culture I think there's a missing element to this discussion. Quebec (f/k/a Lower Canada) has been a part of Canada since, oh, 1763. People from other parts of Canada have the expectation of being able to move there and retain their rights as Canadians.

I do not believe that Quebeckers have the right to subject Anglophone Canadians to tyranny of the (local) majority.
You honestly think I am not aware of the history?

As for anglos in Quebec, they have pretty much full complement of services both public and private in their language. Something that francophones outside Quebec who are also supposed to be equal do not have with the possible exception of New Brunswick. Yet you don't shed a tear for them.

The only thing that anglos in Quebec do not have is the right to compel or force everyone they encounter and deal with to switch to English just for them, a right they more or less had 40-some years ago. Apparently this is enough to make some people feel very unhappy. That's their prerogative and they are free to make their own decisions based on what makes them happy or not.

Ultimately I do not see this segment of the population being satisfied with the situation if such a thing bothers them, as their expectations cannot be realistically reconciled with a society where the majority speaks French and French is the official language.

Ce qui arrivera, arrivera.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:17 AM
 
34,389 posts, read 41,490,319 times
Reputation: 29865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
In the 1970s the FLQ crisis had already happened, the language and separatism issues were red-hot. Worse than today. You made your choice and that's fine, but it's odd that you should complain bitterly about it now.

.
The reason for my constant complaining is i like my Anglo culture every bit as much as you like your francophone culture.
If you were living long ago In a time when these Anglo overlords were supposedly suppressing and dominating the francophone culture what do you suppose would have been your demeanor?I wouldnt be surprised if your attitude wouldnt have been similar to my current attitude as i watch my Anglo culture get subjugated out of existence.
When i first came to Quebec i felt i had been given a gift at having the good fortune to be living and working in such a culturally diverse place, i thought how wonderful to be able to learn another language and fit in with the local population,Alas it never quite worked out that way as after a few years i did become bilingual but was continually viewed as an outsider one of les Autres called a maudit Anglaise some one who was never allowed to be a viable member of Quebec society just an Anglo who happened to speak French.
A few years after my arrival in Quebec the fangs of Bill101 started to sink in and from my perspective it seemed like the government was hellbent on the eradication my Anglo culture a direction the government continues to this day. Its obvious in my demeanor that i've soured on the multicultural dream i once had of integrating into Quebec society as a fully bilingual Anglophone,seems its for the most part a closed shop where Anglos even though they become bilingual need not apply..
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:24 AM
 
34,389 posts, read 41,490,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

As for anglos in Quebec, they have pretty much full complement of services both public and private in their language. Something that francophones outside Quebec who are also supposed to be equal do not have with the possible exception of New Brunswick. Yet you don't shed a tear for them.

The only thing that anglos in Quebec do not have is the right to compel or force everyone they encounter and deal with to switch to English just for them, a right they more or less had 40-some years ago. Apparently this is enough to make some people feel very unhappy. That's their prerogative and they are free to make their own decisions based on what makes them happy or not.

Ultimately I do not see this segment of the population being satisfied with the situation if such a thing bothers them, as their expectations cannot be realistically reconciled with a society where the majority speaks French and French is the official language.
Difference is those francophones outside Quebec are not subjected to the Anglo equivalent of Bill101 and its language police,if they want to conduct any aspect of their lives in French they are free to do so,with no laws restricting their rights to live in as much French as they want, unfortunately for them outside Quebec its all English .
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,923 posts, read 6,267,579 times
Reputation: 12380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You honestly think I am not aware of the history?
Obviously you are and I am glad you read my posts. Hopefully others not as attuned read my posts as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As for anglos in Quebec, they have pretty much full complement of services both public and private in their language. Something that francophones outside Quebec who are also supposed to be equal do not have with the possible exception of New Brunswick. Yet you don't shed a tear for them.
The "sufficient demand" provisions of the OLA should take care of that. I don't care if some part of Quebec that gets two English speakers a year coming through has signs or services in English. I do care that the public signage in a functionally bi-lingual city as Montreal or Gatineau is French only. I do care that English can't be used in the workplace if the company has 50 or more employees. As far as the ROC goes I think that areas that have sufficient numbers of Francophones should provide service and signage in both languages. I do not think that an RCMP post in a place like Vancouver should have to pay a French language phone operator. I think that areas with a working second language such as, in the case of Vancouver Chinese should accommodate those languages. Language laws are, however, a blunt tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The only thing that anglos in Quebec do not have is the right to compel or force everyone they encounter and deal with to switch to English just for them, a right they more or less had 40-some years ago. Apparently this is enough to make some people feel very unhappy. That's their prerogative and they are free to make their own decisions based on what makes them happy or not.
Should dogs have to be trained in French if their owner speaks English?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Ultimately I do not see this segment of the population being satisfied with the situation if such a thing bothers them, as their expectations cannot be realistically reconciled with a society where the majority speaks French and French is the official language.

Ce qui arrivera, arrivera.
As I said above it should be area by area. In New York City we have areas with lots of signs in Chinese and English, or Spanish and English or some with Greek and English.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Brossard
66 posts, read 109,242 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Obviously you are and I am glad you read my posts. Hopefully others not as attuned read my posts as well.
The "sufficient demand" provisions of the OLA should take care of that. I don't care if some part of Quebec that gets two English speakers a year coming through has signs or services in English. I do care that the public signage in a functionally bi-lingual city as Montreal or Gatineau is French only. I do care that English can't be used in the workplace if the company has 50 or more employees. As far as the ROC goes I think that areas that have sufficient numbers of Francophones should provide service and signage in both languages. I do not think that an RCMP post in a place like Vancouver should have to pay a French language phone operator. I think that areas with a working second language such as, in the case of Vancouver Chinese should accommodate those languages. Language laws are, however, a blunt tool.

Should dogs have to be trained in French if their owner speaks English?

As I said above it should be area by area. In New York City we have areas with lots of signs in Chinese and English, or Spanish and English or some with Greek and English.
Exactly, as I mentioned before most French-Canadians have too much of a hive-mind to allocate bilingualism or minority services regionally rather then just simply reiterate the easy "You live in Quebec, you are a member of a small minority, in fact you are the best treated minority". It might seem like that but truly even places on the west-island aren't officially bilingual.

In my opinion Quebec municipalities with at least 20% of the population speaking English as a home-language should automatically have locally available bilingual services. I know this is the case with Ontario cities that have at least a 10% Francophone minority.

Why can't it be understood that we Anglophones are a minority just like Francophones are in the entirety of Canada? I don't care if Anglophones represent a smaller share as the English-language is still relevant in a decent amount of Montreal suburbs.
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,923 posts, read 6,267,579 times
Reputation: 12380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nationalistdefeator View Post
Why can't it be understood that we Anglophones are a minority just like Francophones are in the entirety of Canada? I don't care if Anglophones represent a smaller share as the English-language is still relevant in a decent amount of Montreal suburbs.
Aren't there also pockets of Anglophones in places like the Eastern Townships and Gatineau, and parts of Montreal proper?

Anglophones in Canada, just like whites in the U.S. are not used to playing the "minority card" where needed. We need to call out discrimination where and when it happens.

My people, the Jews, are particularly bad at this. We tolerate "affirmative action" programs in college and employment that function exactly the way the old quota systems, which restricted Jews to 3% enrollments used to.

I digress. Returning to Quebec the Anglos need to assert their rights as free Canadians. One of those rights should be to bilingual highway signs on superhighways, at least divided highways throughout the province since most areas with those have a heavy dose of Anglophone population and travel.
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