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Old 07-12-2015, 06:23 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,188,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Freedom of Speech is an American concept and has no place in Canada.
Freedom of expression, including freedom of speech, is absolutely a Canadian concept which is integral to our system of government. It is a critical part of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms enacted in 1982, a long term goal of Trudeau's in building Canadian society, and expanding on Diefenbacker's "Bill of Rights" which was simply a law of parliament. Concepts of freedom of expression are rooted in European liberalism and i wouldn't be surprised that other societies had some parallel concepts, or that these concepts are also contained in the Magna Charta and common law. Apparently in 1867 at Canada's founding Britain already had limited guarantees of freedom of expression, and these are considered implied thru the British North America Act which created Canada. Canadian Supremem Court Justice Peter Corey wrote that there is perhaps no right more fundamental to a democratic society. (sorry that las tis from Wikipedia ...)

Freedom of Speech in the U.S. context is in the First Amendment along with free exercise of religion, freedom of press and assmebly, and to petition the government.

As I understand it, where the US diverges from other democratic nations is in the great deference the US Supreme Court has created towards freedom of speech, setting a high bar for the government to justify curtailing these freedoms. As i recall, this originated in cases regarding the rights of the socialist party to expression - only actual incitement to violence, not political theories, could be banned. As a result, the communist party was allowed to organize in the US, unlike in Canada where it was illegal. (Canadian Pacifists were also stripped of their right to vote on similar grounds). The longer term result - however one views it - is that America lacks the "hate speech" laws that Canada and Europe have. To me this is an increasing concern as haters is the internet to influence others.

This is not to say that the US lacks political correctness, or there are no bad apples in Canada. As can be seen in campus debates or the recent prosecution of a baker from Colorado who refused to make a "gay" wedding cake. Indeed, some of my Canadian colleagues complain about PC attitudes in the US, and I have seen some pretty borderline behaviour here. Of course this can happen anywhere.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:01 PM
 
18,286 posts, read 10,383,572 times
Reputation: 13358
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyblue1987 View Post
It's not oppressive, we just don't need to adhere to American ideologies. You can keep your so called "free speech" and we'll keep our polite society.
They don't have any greater freedoms of speech than Canada does, just more bullcrap from the RWNJ's that don't have a feck'n clue what they're talking about in either country.

Start your research here with this yardstick:

https://index.rsf.org/#!/

World Press Freedom Index Plunges

Mmmm....Canada #8 United States #49

You don't have "real" freedom of speech if your press doesn't.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:16 PM
 
Location: MD
16 posts, read 13,290 times
Reputation: 28
Whoa. I never knew Canada was like that.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:24 PM
 
18,286 posts, read 10,383,572 times
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I can see where this is headed down that well trodden path of the Hatfield and McCoys to no worthwhile end other than to once again get us all going at each other over something that is akin to which end of the soft-boiled egg do you open.

People seeking to stimulate aggro with cherry-picking the most recent controversial case and posting it with huffery and puffery need to be advised that for those of us whose job required subscriptions to a variety of case law reviews can attest to reading some very interesting cases over the last few decades of prosecutions in the U.S. based upon the test of 'speech to incite violence' or 'fighting words'.

The freedom of expression as protected by most western democracies is to be guarded very carefully and as such the countries currently being discussed in here are both doing an admirable job.
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:30 AM
 
34,397 posts, read 41,499,470 times
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So basically this topic is about why isnt Canada just like America? Start with Americans needing to grasp the concept that Canada is a different country with different cultural perspectives and viewpoints and social mores.

Last edited by jambo101; 07-13-2015 at 02:39 AM..
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Old 07-13-2015, 06:59 AM
 
18,286 posts, read 10,383,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
So basically this topic is about why isnt Canada just like America? Start with Americans needing to grasp the concept that Canada is a different country with different cultural perspectives and viewpoints and social mores.
And finish with self flagellating Canadians infused with adulation over all things American being asked to tone down their idolatry just a tad.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,598 posts, read 11,088,073 times
Reputation: 10308
Quote:
Originally Posted by docwatson View Post

As I understand it, where the US diverges from other democratic nations is in the great deference the US Supreme Court has created towards freedom of speech, setting a high bar for the government to justify curtailing these freedoms. As i recall, this originated in cases regarding the rights of the socialist party to expression - only actual incitement to violence, not political theories, could be banned. As a result, the communist party was allowed to organize in the US, unlike in Canada where it was illegal. .
the Canadian Communist Party isn't illegal. It was during some periods, but unlike the US, Canada didn't have a national self-flagellation over views like McCarthyism. Instead, we elected them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Canada


ed. I just like to note that the odds of "self-flagellation" being used in two consecutive posts by two different posters are incalculable.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Canada
7 posts, read 5,700 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
So basically this topic is about why isnt Canada just like America? Start with Americans needing to grasp the concept that Canada is a different country with different cultural perspectives and viewpoints and social mores.
I agree. Free speech and freedom of expression are not part of the Canadian identity, and we don't need to change that. The Americans can keep all of their "anything goes" mentality to themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
That doesn't sound just a wee bit oppressive to you? I hurt your feelings, so I belong in jail?
If you hurt someone's feelings badly enough you should face consequences. We can't have a society where people just run around saying whatever they want.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:45 AM
 
6,550 posts, read 4,090,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbaker83 View Post
If you hurt someone's feelings badly enough you should face consequences. We can't have a society where people just run around saying whatever they want.
It's not such a huge step from being jailed for your anti-PC views about, say, minorities, to being jailed for your anti-PC views about the government. It sets a dangerous precedent to jail people for speaking their minds. It creates a culture, not of peace and tolerance, but of fear and intimidation.
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:35 PM
 
18,286 posts, read 10,383,572 times
Reputation: 13358
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
It's not such a huge step from being jailed for your anti-PC views about, say, minorities, to being jailed for your anti-PC views about the government. It sets a dangerous precedent to jail people for speaking their minds. It creates a culture, not of peace and tolerance, but of fear and intimidation.
Except you're still ignoring the part about "anti-pc views" NOT being jail-worthy occurrences; either in the U.S. or Canada.

I guess you're one of those who believes, in spite of all previous links provided on the particulars of "hate speech/crime" definitions being quite clear re; "hurt feelings" nor "speaking your mind" qualify, if you repeat a fallacy often enough you just might get the inmates to rioting?

Your premise being incorrect from the outset; I would therefore suggest that your emotive depiction of a "culture of fear and intimidation" is not only a HUGE STEP, but indeed, one that is so remote so as to be insignificant based upon current facts.
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