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Old 07-12-2015, 10:55 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,276 posts, read 6,600,948 times
Reputation: 14315

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
There is a pretty intense discussion going on in the Vancouver forum about whether gays should be able to serve openly in our military/combat roles within the military or not.

........This discussion doesn't have to be limited to gays serving openly and can also be expanded to other groups as well.
Can you please elaborate on what you mean when you say "openly"? Because there are a lot of ways that people of any stripe (i.e. sexual orientation, religion, politics, ethnic or cultural traditions, etc.) may be "open" about who or what they are or believe. Some of those open ways can be intrusive, offensive or disturbing to a lot of other people and some are not. So when you say "openly" in reference to gays serving in the military, what kind of openess are you talking about?

.
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Old 07-12-2015, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,179 posts, read 1,756,364 times
Reputation: 2652
I rarely agree with you, Botti, but on this matter, I have to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
First, he keeps asking others with different opinions if they have served in the miliary, as if that's a relevant question, as if that makes him superior. Really? A person has to have direct experience in order to comment on anything? Does everyone have experience in running a country or city? no, I guess we shouldn't be allowed to vote? Have all parents being trained as a teachers, if not, I guess they shouldn't be allowed to comment on anything related to education? Honestly, that's a stupid question to ask, and he kept pounding on it as if that's his strongest argument.
We can extend this: you cannot comment on pro football unless you played it, you cannot comment on rush-hour traffic in Toronto unless you have driven in it, you cannot comment on the cost of home ownership unless you have owned one. And so on.

I'm reminded of one of the biggest bada**es to ever serve in the Canadian Forces--who happens to be a friend of mine, and who knew that deeply-closeted gays served alongside him. He's not gay--not after a couple of marriages, a few affairs, and fathering some kids--but he saw action as a UN peacekeeper, and as he said, "They [gays] were as well-trained and as effective as the rest of us; and if we were in a jam, they got us out; and if they were in a jam, we got them out. We were all a team, and we fought as a team, and what they did in their off-hours was up to them, as it was to all of us."
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Old 07-12-2015, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,153,795 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Can you please elaborate on what you mean when you say "openly"? Because there are a lot of ways that people of any stripe (i.e. sexual orientation, religion, politics, ethnic or cultural traditions, etc.) may be "open" about who or what they are or believe. Some of those open ways can be intrusive, offensive or disturbing to a lot of other people and some are not. So when you say "openly" in reference to gays serving in the military, what kind of openess are you talking about?

.
When I say open Zoisite it means that I shouldn't have to hide the fact i'm gay and lie about my sexual orientation.. Its as simply as that! It doesn't mean I have the right to harass anyone verbally or sexually anymore than a straight person would have such a right to harass.. That is what we mean by open - that we don't have to hide the fact we are gay or who we are. It has nothing to do with being 'intrusive' anymore than a person who is straight is intrusive simply because of their sexual orientation.

So open is no more 'intrusive' for a gay as a straight and implies no more than that.. Open is the opposite of living in the closet for fear that just because you are gay you will be targeted and singled out for attack.. No we will not be subject to that anymore than a straight person should be persecuted and forced into a closet because of the way they are. Being human isn't intrusive!
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Old 07-12-2015, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,153,795 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
I rarely agree with you, Botti, but on this matter, I have to:

We can extend this: you cannot comment on pro football unless you played it, you cannot comment on rush-hour traffic in Toronto unless you have driven in it, you cannot comment on the cost of home ownership unless you have owned one. And so on.

I'm reminded of one of the biggest bada**es to ever serve in the Canadian Forces--who happens to be a friend of mine, and who knew that deeply-closeted gays served alongside him. He's not gay--not after a couple of marriages, a few affairs, and fathering some kids--but he saw action as a UN peacekeeper, and as he said, "They [gays] were as well-trained and as effective as the rest of us; and if we were in a jam, they got us out; and if they were in a jam, we got them out. We were all a team, and we fought as a team, and what they did in their off-hours was up to them, as it was to all of us."
This story reinforces the earlier research study I posted done by the Palm Center.. A good read!

Anyway - always love a Chevy and Brusan story!
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Old 07-12-2015, 11:54 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,276 posts, read 6,600,948 times
Reputation: 14315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

When I say open Zoisite it means that I shouldn't have to hide the fact i'm gay and lie about my sexual orientation.. Its as simply as that! .......
Well, yeah, I understand that and I agree you shouldn't have to lie and hide, but by what acceptable methods or manners is openess declared? How should it be openly established with everyone else whether or not a person is gay and is not hiding or lying about it? In the military (or any other similar job that has to do with warfare) is there some reason why it would be necessary or be anyone's business for ANY person to know what ANY OTHER person's sexual orientation is? I don't care and frankly I don't want to know what anyone else's sexual orientation is and I don't like to see people publically acting out whatever their orientation is. I'm thinking there's probably a lot of other people who don't give a darn and don't want to know what other people's orientation is either.

.
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,765 posts, read 4,182,912 times
Reputation: 15520
What a pitiful question.

Why the hell not, if they so choose to join the military. Do you think they'll be flouncing across battle fields in pink tights?
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:14 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyblue1987 View Post
Yet you as a Chinese immigrant who only chose Canada after failing to get into the US advocate banning black people from Canadian cities. Give me a break.
When the hell did I advocate banning black people from immigrating? Check back what I said exactly again.
You need some education on reading comprehension.
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:33 AM
 
32 posts, read 26,257 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by gouligann View Post
What a pitiful question.

Why the hell not, if they so choose to join the military.
This is the only response this thread needed.
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:33 AM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,013,011 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
When I say open Zoisite it means that I shouldn't have to hide the fact i'm gay and lie about my sexual orientation.. Its as simply as that! It doesn't mean I have the right to harass anyone verbally or sexually anymore than a straight person would have such a right to harass.. That is what we mean by open - that we don't have to hide the fact we are gay or who we are. It has nothing to do with being 'intrusive' anymore than a person who is straight is intrusive simply because of their sexual orientation.

So open is no more 'intrusive' for a gay as a straight and implies no more than that.. Open is the opposite of living in the closet for fear that just because you are gay you will be targeted and singled out for attack.. No we will not be subject to that anymore than a straight person should be persecuted and forced into a closet because of the way they are. Being human isn't intrusive!
I have no idea what people think will happen as a result of allowing people to serve openly in the military. It is like basic training will turn into a full on Pride parade as a result. There is a certain level of conduct that is required for you to serve, straight or gay. Allowing someone to comfortably speak openly about their preference does not alter that in any way.

Plus I have some bass ass friends who are gay and would want them backing me up over many of my straight friends if I ever got into a sticky situation. Its a shame I even have to make that statement, because it should be assumed.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Canada
7 posts, read 5,703 times
Reputation: 29
I'm sure ISIS will have a field day with it though....


ISIS Corporal Mohamed: High Commander Ayab, a contingent of highly trained American soldiers has landed near the outskirts of Al-Arabiya! How can we possibly resist their ferocious killing capacity? We must man our defences and fight to the Death!

ISIS High Commander Ayab: Fool! Those are not American soldiers, but only Canadian soldiers! We have nothing to fear! Haven't you heard that Canadian soldiers are openly gay!

ISIS Corporal Mohamed: Ah! What a relief High Commander Ayab! How foolish was I to regard the Canadian fighting man with such seriousness!
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