U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-12-2015, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,149,109 times
Reputation: 3738

Advertisements

There is a pretty intense discussion going on in the Vancouver forum about whether gays should be able to serve openly in our military/combat roles within the military or not. I thought it best to open up a general thread in the Canada forum to continue that discussion as it really doesn't belong in the YVR thread about Chinese investments in real estate in Vancouver.

Here is a link to the thread for some background if you wish to read about it.

Chinese investment blamed for soaring Vancouver real estate prices

This discussion doesn't have to be limited to gays serving openly and can also be expanded to other groups as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-12-2015, 06:04 PM
 
34,401 posts, read 41,509,339 times
Reputation: 29886
I see nothing wrong with gays serving in the military,They are just normal people who make as good a soldier as any one else i really dont see what their sexual preference has to do with their competence as soldiers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,149,109 times
Reputation: 3738
Further reading (Research memo) for those interested from the Palm Center.

What Does the Empirical Research Say about the Impact of Openly Gay Service on the Military? | Palm Center
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 06:23 PM
 
733 posts, read 854,363 times
Reputation: 1563
Sure , if it was up to me I would send all canadian gays to combat zones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,149,109 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed View Post
Sure , if it was up to me I would send all canadian gays to combat zones.
Well from what I know anyway, serving in the military is by choice in our country not forced service..So if i'm reading this correctly and do correct me if i'm wrong, you would advocate drafting an entire group, even those in said group against their will into the military and deploy said group to a combat zone? Hoping for the annihilation of a particular group?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 07:40 PM
 
18,296 posts, read 10,386,738 times
Reputation: 13360
Well from listening to some Old Salts, veterans such as my father who saw action throughout Europe and North Africa and my own experience in the RCN I can attest to the fact that gays are in the military and have been in the fighting military since the beginning of time.

Some historical reading of Roman conquests would be worthwhile for those who think no military with openly gay soldiers could ever excel at doing what the military does best.

If all we're discussing is the descriptor "openly", then it comes down to; should we continue to pretend it's not raining so we can claim we're still dry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 08:40 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,273,499 times
Reputation: 7586
I just read through the posts and to me, Canadian Veteran's argument made absolutely no sense, and he made tons of logical mistakes.

First, he keeps asking others with different opinions if they have served in the miliary, as if that's a relevant question, as if that makes him superior. Really? A person has to have direct experience in order to comment on anything? Does everyone have experience in running a country or city? no, I guess we shouldn't be allowed to vote? Have all parents being trained as a teachers, if not, I guess they shouldn't be allowed to comment on anything related to education? Honestly, that's a stupid question to ask, and he kept pounding on it as if that's his strongest argument.

Second, the mentioned "pratical reasons" why gays should be allowed to serve. Well let's just step back A LOT and assume gay people are indeed in general less tough (according to steorotype), does that automatically mean gay people shouldn't serve? That's extremely dangerous - in reality taller men are stronger than shorter men too, I guess we should forbid men under 5'11 to serve in the military as well? You can assume a stereotype and apply it universally. I am sure serving in the miliary has its own strict criteria, which means you need to pass certain test and other barriers in order to do that, in which case I don't understand why homosexuality has anything to do with it - if a gay is indeed unsuitable for that, then he will be eliminated. Even if you assume 90% of gays are not suitable (again, a big assumption and I dont think that's true), should we deprive the rest 10% of doing that? I don't know if he has any empirical evidence that gay people are really less capable of that, apparently it must be true because he served and we didn't.

Modernrebel makes even less sense. Gay men affect military moral? How, because they prefer guys, therefore, they must be attracted to all men, and keep wanting to sexually harass them? Get over yourself. Gay guys are known to be pretty picky and it is not like they will jump on to any men they see. Don't be ridiculous. And if the effect is psurely psyhological based on nothing but bias and discrimination, sorry, it is these solders who need to adjust themselves (probably a small percentage of them). You don't outrightly discriminate a large group of people just because some soldiers feel "uncomfortable". Give me a break.

And he said Canada did well enough in the past so why change policies", what kind of cr*p logic is that? Canada and the rest of the world did fine banning homosexuality completely in the past, why change that? Countries did fine when engaged in all sorts of persecutions against minority, why change that? Why change policies? Because it is WRONG and against the law.

You want to see military should be above the law, give me a break, as if the Canadian army did anything significant. When was the last time Canada fought someone on its own (without the UK, US, you know, those real powers)? And to Canadian Veteran, what war did you actually fight? How many enemies did you kill? FOr what? Was Canada under invasion and people's lives were in dangers? Don't glorify your profession. It is just a job by which you make a living, not so much different from accountants.

I am sorry you went through all the miliary training yet fail to be educated on thing: simply logical thinking. None of what you guys said make any sense, and you pretend you and only you guys hold the true. Almost comic to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Ottawa
156 posts, read 148,022 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
There is a pretty intense discussion going on in the Vancouver forum about whether gays should be able to serve openly in our military/combat roles within the military or not. I thought it best to open up a general thread in the Canada forum to continue that discussion as it really doesn't belong in the YVR thread about Chinese investments in real estate in Vancouver.

Here is a link to the thread for some background if you wish to read about it.

Chinese investment blamed for soaring Vancouver real estate prices

This discussion doesn't have to be limited to gays serving openly and can also be expanded to other groups as well.
Doesn't look like an intense discussion except from you and Natnasci who seem unable to accept that some people have different views.

I don't know if blatanly gay people should be in mixed groups in the army but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how a blatantly gay person can screw up the morale of a band of brothers. There are about a million ways that it can cause friction so I can totally understand their viewpoints.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Ottawa
156 posts, read 148,022 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I just read through the posts and to me, Canadian Veteran's argument made absolutely no sense, and he made tons of logical mistakes.

First, he keeps asking others with different opinions if they have served in the miliary, as if that's a relevant question, as if that makes him superior. Really? A person has to have direct experience in order to comment on anything? Does everyone have experience in running a country or city? no, I guess we shouldn't be allowed to vote? Have all parents being trained as a teachers, if not, I guess they shouldn't be allowed to comment on anything related to education? Honestly, that's a stupid question to ask, and he kept pounding on it as if that's his strongest argument.

Second, the mentioned "pratical reasons" why gays should be allowed to serve. Well let's just step back A LOT and assume gay people are indeed in general less tough (according to steorotype), does that automatically mean gay people shouldn't serve? That's extremely dangerous - in reality taller men are stronger than shorter men too, I guess we should forbid men under 5'11 to serve in the military as well? You can assume a stereotype and apply it universally. I am sure serving in the miliary has its own strict criteria, which means you need to pass certain test and other barriers in order to do that, in which case I don't understand why homosexuality has anything to do with it - if a gay is indeed unsuitable for that, then he will be eliminated. Even if you assume 90% of gays are not suitable (again, a big assumption and I dont think that's true), should we deprive the rest 10% of doing that? I don't know if he has any empirical evidence that gay people are really less capable of that, apparently it must be true because he served and we didn't.

Modernrebel makes even less sense. Gay men affect military moral? How, because they prefer guys, therefore, they must be attracted to all men, and keep wanting to sexually harass them? Get over yourself. Gay guys are known to be pretty picky and it is not like they will jump on to any men they see. Don't be ridiculous. And if the effect is psurely psyhological based on nothing but bias and discrimination, sorry, it is these solders who need to adjust themselves (probably a small percentage of them). You don't outrightly discriminate a large group of people just because some soldiers feel "uncomfortable". Give me a break.

And he said Canada did well enough in the past so why change policies", what kind of cr*p logic is that? Canada and the rest of the world did fine banning homosexuality completely in the past, why change that? Countries did fine when engaged in all sorts of persecutions against minority, why change that? Why change policies? Because it is WRONG and against the law.

You want to see military should be above the law, give me a break, as if the Canadian army did anything significant. When was the last time Canada fought someone on its own (without the UK, US, you know, those real powers)? And to Canadian Veteran, what war did you actually fight? How many enemies did you kill? FOr what? Was Canada under invasion and people's lives were in dangers? Don't glorify your profession. It is just a job by which you make a living, not so much different from accountants.

I am sorry you went through all the miliary training yet fail to be educated on thing: simply logical thinking. None of what you guys said make any sense, and you pretend you and only you guys hold the true. Almost comic to me.
Yet you as a Chinese immigrant who only chose Canada after failing to get into the US advocate banning black people from Canadian cities. Give me a break.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2015, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,149,109 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyblue1987 View Post

I don't know if blatanly gay people should be in mixed groups in the army but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how a blatantly gay person can screw up the morale of a band of brothers. There are about a million ways that it can cause friction so I can totally understand their viewpoints.
A blatantly gay person lol - what exactly is a blantantly gay person babyblue?... What about a blatantly atheist person or a blatantly female person or a blatantly muslim person or a blatantly white catholic straight male person - which groups should we exclude from the service because perhaps in an ever diversifying country and ultimately armed forces, any group will impact the morale of another if we don't learn to accept differences... So maybe we should all become more respectful human beings and appreciate that not everyone is going to be or look like 'we' look like.... - whatever 'we' are in modern day Canada.. Everyone is entitled to a view babyblue, as long as their views don't break the law and inhibit others the rights that all groups should enjoy. So we should all be careful when our views impact the rights and freedoms of other human beings because if you advocate that - you're always on the slippery slope of having your own group or the group you identify with the most having its rights and freedoms compromised by those who would advocate such.

Last edited by fusion2; 07-12-2015 at 10:52 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top