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Old 07-31-2015, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,447,708 times
Reputation: 4409

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I think some people are envious of some of the things that Quebec has, like subsidized daycare, an F1 race, etc. French isn't usually one of those things. The biggest reason for that is that it's not used.

I grew up in Alberta. I took 10 years of French, and short of a school trip where I went to Donnacona, I've never used it. Chinese would have had much more value, as 1/3 of my class was Chinese.
Quebec has an F1 race???????!!! Nothing kills my erections faster than the thought of F1.

 
Old 07-31-2015, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Ottawa
156 posts, read 147,939 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Quebec has an F1 race???????!!! Nothing kills my erections faster than the thought of F1.
Just as I suspected. At least we know which team you play for.


moderator cut: image removed

Last edited by Marka; 08-01-2015 at 12:10 AM..
 
Old 07-31-2015, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,447,708 times
Reputation: 4409
Vroooooooommmmmm!!!!!!
 
Old 08-01-2015, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Could I not turn it back and say the same to you? Maybe in our past exchange you helped me see the light and embrace generalizations to the same level as yourself? At the end of the day you taking me to task on this just makes us both hypocrites.

This has nothing to do with cheering for a particular team. I guess I have just ran into way too many self-righteous conversations on race, safety, etc..that use no context as to why there are differences between the countries when it comes to why things are the way they are.

It is very difficult to have a real honest conversation about race in Canada, I did not say it was impossible, but it is extremely difficult without being told that things are "SOOOO much better there vs the USA". That is not a generalization, that is just me sharing my personal experience.
I found the irony and called you on it lol!! I wouldn't say either one of us are hypocrites but notice in that thread I did state that things can be generalized to a certain degree of success but you can NEVER discount the individual..

Anyway, with respect to Vive's comments - don't you find it odd that someone who admits to not really engaging or caring to engage with Anglo Canada that he should level the claim that it is less open minded than the U.S? He seems to admittedly have little experience dealing with us.... Anyway re less open minded in what sense - gays in the military, gays marrying, race relations.. Its tough to quantify national open mindedness and there are a range of issues and diverse views on many issues in both countries particularly regionally.

Look at Canada - would someone like myself from multicultural Toronto be more open minded than say someone from Wilkes Barre Pennsylvania with respect race relations? In a general sense of course. Wilkes Barre may you ask but why would I mention Wilkes Barre - well I was there this morning on an overnight motel stop on way to NYC - yes i'm in the U.S right now and guess what I heard over breakfast at Eddie's Place Diner in Wilkes Barre..

The Waitress talking to two patrons about Donald Trump and how even though he is a Billionaire she supports him, he's strong and you know what she said - He's one of US.... She further said I don't know how the one we have in now got in - you'd think WE were the minority...

Needless to say I finished my breakfast as quickly as possible and didn't leave her a tip.. This is Wilkes Barre not exactly a small metro - Scranton/Pittston/Wilkes Barre has several hundred thousand people and only two hours away from NYC.

So again why do I mention this - I mention it because people in both countries need to take off those rose coloured glasses.. Sure she was WIDE open about her racist view right in a diner full of other white people and she has benefited from living in a country with lots of progress in race relations yet she still exists aaaand she talks very openly about it but at the end of the day she simply does not accept Blacks as one of US! You know what - there's A LOT of people in both countries cut from the very very same cloth regardless of how much media attention is shone in one country vs the other or even if one has a Black President so let's not unfairly single out Canada here on the issue of race relations....

I hope you understand what i'm saying Ed.... The U.S isn't just Boston, NYC or S.F and the more someone like Vive travels and gets to actually know other places and people maybe just maybe he won't feel the need just to lob grenades at English Canada and generalize our views, beliefs etc and hopefully develop a more balanced view - and let's be honest about why he would want to paint Anglo Canada with a negative brush through and through.. Vive wants a separate Quebec so will he be entirely objective about English Canada and how it should be portrayed - hmmm i'll let you noodle with that one for a bit! Now this isn't saying there aren't some generalized truths with his commentary there - but he could sure find a whole lot of Skeletons in the U.S closet when it comes to a lack of open-mindedness with many many people - I recommend he travel to Eddie's Diner in Wilkes Barre PA... I'd also welcome him to my workplace In Toronto... Needless to say, he may have a bit more of a - and pardon the pun on this - open mind when it comes to his generalizations about Anglo Canada and the U.S....

Now off to the sights of the Big City.. What a BIG difference between NYC and Wilkes Barre and not just size of city - but mentality of individuals in the collective of each...

Last edited by fusion2; 08-01-2015 at 03:36 PM..
 
Old 08-02-2015, 06:37 AM
 
18,275 posts, read 10,377,134 times
Reputation: 13338
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I found the irony and called you on it lol!! I wouldn't say either one of us are hypocrites but notice in that thread I did state that things can be generalized to a certain degree of success but you can NEVER discount the individual..

Anyway, with respect to Vive's comments - don't you find it odd that someone who admits to not really engaging or caring to engage with Anglo Canada that he should level the claim that it is less open minded than the U.S? He seems to admittedly have little experience dealing with us.... Anyway re less open minded in what sense - gays in the military, gays marrying, race relations.. Its tough to quantify national open mindedness and there are a range of issues and diverse views on many issues in both countries particularly regionally.

Look at Canada - would someone like myself from multicultural Toronto be more open minded than say someone from Wilkes Barre Pennsylvania with respect race relations? In a general sense of course. Wilkes Barre may you ask but why would I mention Wilkes Barre - well I was there this morning on an overnight motel stop on way to NYC - yes i'm in the U.S right now and guess what I heard over breakfast at Eddie's Place Diner in Wilkes Barre..

The Waitress talking to two patrons about Donald Trump and how even though he is a Billionaire she supports him, he's strong and you know what she said - He's one of US.... She further said I don't know how the one we have in now got in - you'd think WE were the minority...

Needless to say I finished my breakfast as quickly as possible and didn't leave her a tip.. This is Wilkes Barre not exactly a small metro - Scranton/Pittston/Wilkes Barre has several hundred thousand people and only two hours away from NYC.

So again why do I mention this - I mention it because people in both countries need to take off those rose coloured glasses.. Sure she was WIDE open about her racist view right in a diner full of other white people and she has benefited from living in a country with lots of progress in race relations yet she still exists aaaand she talks very openly about it but at the end of the day she simply does not accept Blacks as one of US! You know what - there's A LOT of people in both countries cut from the very very same cloth regardless of how much media attention is shone in one country vs the other or even if one has a Black President so let's not unfairly single out Canada here on the issue of race relations....

I hope you understand what i'm saying Ed.... The U.S isn't just Boston, NYC or S.F and the more someone like Vive travels and gets to actually know other places and people maybe just maybe he won't feel the need just to lob grenades at English Canada and generalize our views, beliefs etc and hopefully develop a more balanced view - and let's be honest about why he would want to paint Anglo Canada with a negative brush through and through.. Vive wants a separate Quebec so will he be entirely objective about English Canada and how it should be portrayed - hmmm i'll let you noodle with that one for a bit! Now this isn't saying there aren't some generalized truths with his commentary there - but he could sure find a whole lot of Skeletons in the U.S closet when it comes to a lack of open-mindedness with many many people - I recommend he travel to Eddie's Diner in Wilkes Barre PA... I'd also welcome him to my workplace In Toronto... Needless to say, he may have a bit more of a - and pardon the pun on this - open mind when it comes to his generalizations about Anglo Canada and the U.S....

Now off to the sights of the Big City.. What a BIG difference between NYC and Wilkes Barre and not just size of city - but mentality of individuals in the collective of each...
Well said indeed; there's enough, too much, bigotry and other 'lesser quality' human traits in either/both countries to go around to negate competing for trophies on the plus or minus scale to have any merit.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 08:50 AM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,008,981 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I found the irony and called you on it lol!! I wouldn't say either one of us are hypocrites but notice in that thread I did state that things can be generalized to a certain degree of success but you can NEVER discount the individual..

Anyway, with respect to Vive's comments - don't you find it odd that someone who admits to not really engaging or caring to engage with Anglo Canada that he should level the claim that it is less open minded than the U.S? He seems to admittedly have little experience dealing with us.... Anyway re less open minded in what sense - gays in the military, gays marrying, race relations.. Its tough to quantify national open mindedness and there are a range of issues and diverse views on many issues in both countries particularly regionally.

Look at Canada - would someone like myself from multicultural Toronto be more open minded than say someone from Wilkes Barre Pennsylvania with respect race relations? In a general sense of course. Wilkes Barre may you ask but why would I mention Wilkes Barre - well I was there this morning on an overnight motel stop on way to NYC - yes i'm in the U.S right now and guess what I heard over breakfast at Eddie's Place Diner in Wilkes Barre..

The Waitress talking to two patrons about Donald Trump and how even though he is a Billionaire she supports him, he's strong and you know what she said - He's one of US.... She further said I don't know how the one we have in now got in - you'd think WE were the minority...

Needless to say I finished my breakfast as quickly as possible and didn't leave her a tip.. This is Wilkes Barre not exactly a small metro - Scranton/Pittston/Wilkes Barre has several hundred thousand people and only two hours away from NYC.

So again why do I mention this - I mention it because people in both countries need to take off those rose coloured glasses.. Sure she was WIDE open about her racist view right in a diner full of other white people and she has benefited from living in a country with lots of progress in race relations yet she still exists aaaand she talks very openly about it but at the end of the day she simply does not accept Blacks as one of US! You know what - there's A LOT of people in both countries cut from the very very same cloth regardless of how much media attention is shone in one country vs the other or even if one has a Black President so let's not unfairly single out Canada here on the issue of race relations....

I hope you understand what i'm saying Ed.... The U.S isn't just Boston, NYC or S.F and the more someone like Vive travels and gets to actually know other places and people maybe just maybe he won't feel the need just to lob grenades at English Canada and generalize our views, beliefs etc and hopefully develop a more balanced view - and let's be honest about why he would want to paint Anglo Canada with a negative brush through and through.. Vive wants a separate Quebec so will he be entirely objective about English Canada and how it should be portrayed - hmmm i'll let you noodle with that one for a bit! Now this isn't saying there aren't some generalized truths with his commentary there - but he could sure find a whole lot of Skeletons in the U.S closet when it comes to a lack of open-mindedness with many many people - I recommend he travel to Eddie's Diner in Wilkes Barre PA... I'd also welcome him to my workplace In Toronto... Needless to say, he may have a bit more of a - and pardon the pun on this - open mind when it comes to his generalizations about Anglo Canada and the U.S....

Now off to the sights of the Big City.. What a BIG difference between NYC and Wilkes Barre and not just size of city - but mentality of individuals in the collective of each...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Well said indeed; there's enough, too much, bigotry and other 'lesser quality' human traits in either/both countries to go around to negate competing for trophies on the plus or minus scale to have any merit.
Thanks for the post Fusion, but that was not the point I was personally getting at. Unless I misinterpreted the the original post I do not believe that was Vive's point either.

The argument is not as to which country and its citizens are more or less open minded and less racist. In my opinion they are equally as racist and open minded on balance at the same time. The point is that citizens of the US are forced to own their racial history and present while Canadians can easily ignore and hide from the racial issues that a present in their country.

As I said before no matter how uncomfortable it makes people, Americans cant hide from their history and that allows for more open dialogue which of course comes with the other side which are vocal racial tensions that is laid out for the entire planet to see.

Anyways, enjoy NYC, what the fu*k are you doing posting man, get out and enjoy the city.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Thanks for the post Fusion, but that was not the point I was personally getting at. Unless I misinterpreted the the original post I do not believe that was Vive's point either.

The argument is not as to which country and its citizens are more or less open minded and less racist. In my opinion they are equally as racist and open minded on balance at the same time. The point is that citizens of the US are forced to own their racial history and present while Canadians can easily ignore and hide from the racial issues that a present in their country.

As I said before no matter how uncomfortable it makes people, Americans cant hide from their history and that allows for more open dialogue which of course comes with the other side which are vocal racial tensions that is laid out for the entire planet to see.

Anyways, enjoy NYC, what the fu*k are you doing posting man, get out and enjoy the city.
I'll quote what he said

"For the running debate I prefer the US to English Canada for so many reasons. Actually Americans look more open minded for differences"

That is a pretty broad brushed stroke comment that for me is very hard to quantify and would as a rational person make me question it because there are plenty of examples we can use for and against both nations.

As for race relations i'm glad you acknowledge that both countries have their issues because there's enough ammo for Canadians to use against the U.S if pressed.. Vice versa but yeah - perhaps a balanced post by Vive would have also acknowledged this and added credibility to his post that you were gushing over. Perhaps he can elaborate further on his post because more clarification is needed based on his broad brush stroked comments and seemingly very much romanticized views of the U.S as a whole.

I find Americans in general more open with their views as a whole - Canadians tend to be more reserved and less open in discussion but this doesn't make us more racist, homophobic, misogynistic etc..

I'm in NYC for a few days and take occasionally rest bits away from the heat and conserve energy.. Don't worry I always enjoy NYC and this trip has been no exception
 
Old 08-02-2015, 06:25 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,008,981 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I'll quote what he said

"For the running debate I prefer the US to English Canada for so many reasons. Actually Americans look more open minded for differences"

That is a pretty broad brushed stroke comment that for me is very hard to quantify and would as a rational person make me question it because there are plenty of examples we can use for and against both nations.

As for race relations i'm glad you acknowledge that both countries have their issues because there's enough ammo for Canadians to use against the U.S if pressed.. Vice versa but yeah - perhaps a balanced post by Vive would have also acknowledged this and added credibility to his post that you were gushing over. Perhaps he can elaborate further on his post because more clarification is needed based on his broad brush stroked comments and seemingly very much romanticized views of the U.S as a whole.

I find Americans in general more open with their views as a whole - Canadians tend to be more reserved and less open in discussion but this doesn't make us more racist, homophobic, misogynistic etc..

I'm in NYC for a few days and take occasionally rest bits away from the heat and conserve energy.. Don't worry I always enjoy NYC and this trip has been no exception
Actually I find many Canadians more than willing to discuss how racist, unsafe, bigoted, etc..the US is. So feeling free to discuss those topics is an activity many participate in. Its peculiar that the freeness of speech ends once it is turned around.

I have lived in the US for many years and not once has an American fired back about how racist Canadians are. Of course I have had many other uniformed conversations where I set Americans straight, but when it comes to racism there is a general view that Canada is free of that issue. Now on the other hand on my visits back to Canada people make sure to grill me on topics re: racism, healthcare, gun control, etc..

I love Canadian people and think its a wonderful country that has done a pretty decent job in comparison to many others when it comes to integration. When it comes to self examination though, many fall short. The fact that Vive actually used some context and mentioned slavery, agricultural conditions and migration patterns as the reason for the differences rather than moral superiority, I did appreciate it, because that level of informed discussion has been absent when discussing race issues when I am speaking to the Canadians I come in contact with (Notice I didn't say all Canadians). So shoot me for gushing over the refreshing change of pace.

Last edited by edwardsyzzurphands; 08-02-2015 at 06:36 PM..
 
Old 08-02-2015, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Actually I find many Canadians more than willing to discuss how racist, unsafe, bigoted, etc..the US is. So feeling free to discuss those topics is an activity many participate in. Its peculiar that the freeness of speech ends once it is turned around.

I have lived in the US for many years and not once has an American fired back about how racist Canadians are. Of course I have had many other uniformed conversations where I set Americans straight, but when it comes to racism there is a general view that Canada is free of that issue. Now on the other hand on my visits back to Canada people make sure to grill me on topics re: racism, healthcare, gun control, etc..

I love Canadian people and think its a wonderful country that has done a pretty decent job in comparison to many others when it comes to integration. When it comes to self examination though, many fall short. The fact that Vive actually used some context and mentioned slavery, agricultural conditions and migration patterns as the reason for the differences rather than moral superiority, I did appreciate it, because that level of informed discussion has been absent when discussing race issues when I am speaking to the Canadians I come in contact with (Notice I didn't say all Canadians). So shoot me for gushing over the refreshing change of pace.
Ha gushing over refreshing change of pace - with due respect Ed are you for real? You think talking about this out in the open as much as is claimed is happening is actually changing things for many Americans vs Canadians.. Man Ed, I hate to say this to you, you're a great guy but you are really mistaken here if you think that white Americans are any less racist than joe blow Canadian just because Canadians apparently only talk about racism elsewhere while sweeping it under the rug here, while our racially elevated neighbours have reached a point of racial bliss through historical movements and intelligent dialogue which gets them through it brilliantly.. Your experiences are yours and as I said, Canadians typically are a more reserved bunch and honestly - i'm not sure who your friends are up here in Canada but i'd like to talk to em myself.. You know my stance on Carding here in Toronto and i'm not the only white Torontonian HIGHLY vocal about it!

I sometimes think when it comes to matters of critique of the U.S you are almost like the Canadians you are hammering... If its about the U.S and any matter of critique lets sweep it under the rug.. Why we've got a black President and more elected officials and we talk about it openly in a sensationalistic fashion on network TV and immigrants make more money in the U.S (a more wealthy country btw) so therefore things are just honky dory and refreshing.. Oh how I wish you were in Wilkes Barre with me and as a white guy blending in and where you can actually here these bigots in the nation of racial harmony.. I can tell you there's absolutely nothing refreshing about them whatsoever - about as refreshing as a Barium Enema - but oh do they talk and talk about issues.. I wonder if there was a black person in the diner what they would have said...

As for integration of immigrants in Canada - you're right its only decent.. Canada slipped from number 3 to number 7 of 38 reported countries as per Mipex... The U.S is ranked 9th so Canada is still slightly ahead.. Now if you're going to say Canada is only decent are you going to admit the U.S is just the same. I admit it - we're not as good as we should be now lets here the same from you about the U.S! I know its hard for you to critique the U.S but I know you can do it!

U.S. Ranks 9th out of 38 Countries in Migrant Integration Policy Index Results | MIPEX 2015

and what do you know - a nation where nobody talks about issues and our media doesn't report squat in terms of any critique of Canada except how harmonious everything is in our self righteous ignorance -well here you go compliments of The Toronto Star... This slip in rankings as per Mipex - one of the many many reasons to vote Mr Stephen Harper out in 2.5 months.

Canada slips out of top-five countries in integrating immigrants | Toronto Star

Last edited by fusion2; 08-02-2015 at 07:24 PM..
 
Old 08-02-2015, 08:50 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,008,981 times
Reputation: 2661
Fusion, I love you like a virtual brother from another mother, but your reading comprehension on this one is REALLY bad. I mean that in the most loving way possible.

When you find the post where I said Americans are less racist than Canadians, get back to me. We will be waiting for a while, cause it never happened. You have completely missed the point.

Also I appreciate you jumping to the defense of black folks being carded, but why did it take the Toronto Star and some dude named Ed who lives in another country to bring it to your attention? You know this has been going on for over a decade right? This is the kind of disconnect I am speaking about, not about who is and isnt racist, but who is willing to admit they live in a racist society.

Last edited by edwardsyzzurphands; 08-02-2015 at 09:05 PM..
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