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Where I live we do not even talk so much about English Canada. Most of the consciousness is that this is Québec in all media and culture.
For the running debate I prefer the US to English Canada for so many reasons. Actually Americans look more open minded for differences. What I am saying is English Canadians have more self righteous streak. The things that English Canadians proclaim as benefits like being more "peaceful" have more to do with historical and geography condequences than any cultural superiority. On the other hand no body made the US the centre of technology and industry except themselves. If that makes sense, Canadian superiority is based on things out of Canadians control like having unspoiled wilderness but American superiority is based on things they actually did, like inventing the airplane, computers, or liberating Europe and Asia twice even though they wanted to just be neutral. Say there is a problem in America. Americans always say "we have a problem, so how do we fix this?". That is the "politics obsession" that English Canadians lament, it's people with different ideas coming up with solutions. Okay, let's look at English Canada. 99% of the "American" problems are in Canada too, but English Canadians are too busy proclaiming how non-racist, progressive and overall utopian they are to admit or even address the problem. They usually wait until government tells them what to think and then everyone suddenly agrees with it. So when English Canadians say that they are not obsessed with politics, it looks like to me that they only sweep problems under the rug. If you have already created the most peaceful, progressive, nice country, why would there be need for self examination?
Jambo101, you say that Americans are obsessed with race, but isn't that logic considering their history? Those southern states were made into slave colonies by Britain. Canada had hardly any history like this, but is this because of moralism? No, it's because we have very poor agricultural opportunities. This might hurt Canadian exceptionalism but Canada isn't less racist than the U.S., we just have no big racial group to challenge white people. The big divide in Canada is English/French which is a lot more dividing than black/white in America. We have never had the racial diversity of the U.S. We have visible minorities, but which group makes up 50% of a region and comes from a region so different as Africa? With the bickering between Québec/ROC being two European ofshoots, imagine if Québec was mostly African and think how much more bickering there would be. It is amazing that people get along so well in the U.S. considering this, but it does not benefit Canadian exceptionalism in a logical light. This facts doesn't factor in the English Canadian self congragulatory nature. It's more convenient to say that we don't talk about politics and race because of a moral superiority like English Canadians have understood something Americans haven't figured out yet.
I am agreement with others, Good post man...good post.
Also, lauding posts that have no factual foundation, filled with falsehoods and completely at odds with historical knowns, formatted to serve the single purpose of denigrating Canada, is becoming a signature move for a couple of you.
Fusion, I love you like a virtual brother from another mother, but your reading comprehension on this one is REALLY bad. I mean that in the most loving way possible.
When you find the post where I said Americans are less racist than Canadians, get back to me. We will be waiting for a while, cause it never happened. You have completely missed the point.
Also I appreciate you jumping to the defense of black folks being carded, but why did it take the Toronto Star and some dude named Ed who lives in another country to bring it to your attention? You know this has been going on for over a decade right? This is the kind of disconnect I am speaking about, not about who is and isnt racist, but who is willing to admit they live in a racist society.
There's no sense going on about this in here Ed and you wouldn't be surprised that I don't agree but sometimes better to let sleeping dogs lie... I'll just leave it at that and move on.. On a side note - I've been carded by the TPS on two separate occasions and on one it was most certainly because I am gay - just an fyi! As for being a virtual brother - feelings still mutual
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan
Of course, of course, any post that paints ONLY English Canada in a negative light is a high-fiver for separatists.
Also, lauding posts that have no factual foundation, filled with falsehoods and completely at odds with historical knowns, formatted to serve the single purpose of denigrating Canada, is becoming a signature move for a couple of you.
I got that too Bru... There was zero balance in the post, it was target cherry picking and anytime there is no balance than its just as you said, to get high fives and not an honest/genuine examination.
I got that too Bru... There was zero balance in the post, it was target cherry picking and anytime there is no balance than its just as you said, to get high fives and not an honest/genuine examination.
Francophone Quebecers don't "high-five" each other about the superiority of their culture; this may sound meta but it's not part of our culture to do so. On the other hand Canadians really do like claiming cultural superiority, especially to the United States. I mean, in the HitchBOT thread we're being told that this non-event illustrates some great truths about American society, that is (of course) its xenophobia, gun obsession, etc., etc., etc. I mean, come on. What Vive was saying wasn't "Canada sucks" but "Canada isn't any better than the US or any other modern, Western, developed country, get off your high f-ing horse." We know the US is a racist society. We know Quebec is a racist society. Is Canada a racist society?
You know, there's a reason why Quebec has an independence movement that just cannot die even though it also can never rally a majority of the population, and why, as is constantly repeated here, even among Quebec federalists a great pride in being Canadian isn't universal. You may say as jambo does that it's because Canada's full of "maudits Anglais", whom we hate and don't want to be associated to in any way, and I guess that's true for some people. But if you allow me to tell you how I personally feel, I'm very incomfortable with the self-righteousness of Canadian culture which to me is very foreign. I'm not saying without this I'd feel Canadian, I also have an issue with how it seems like I'm being told, even by federalists and by English Canadians, to "choose" between my Quebec identity and subsuming it into a "Canadian" one which doesn't feel natural, but I am saying it's unappealing to me.
Francophone Quebecers don't "high-five" each other about the superiority of their culture; this may sound meta but it's not part of our culture to do so. On the other hand Canadians really do like claiming cultural superiority, especially to the United States. I mean, in the HitchBOT thread we're being told that this non-event illustrates some great truths about American society, that is (of course) its xenophobia, gun obsession, etc., etc., etc. I mean, come on. What Vive was saying wasn't "Canada sucks" but "Canada isn't any better than the US or any other modern, Western, developed country, get off your high f-ing horse." We know the US is a racist society. We know Quebec is a racist society. Is Canada a racist society?
You know, there's a reason why Quebec has an independence movement that just cannot die even though it also can never rally a majority of the population, and why, as is constantly repeated here, even among Quebec federalists a great pride in being Canadian isn't universal. You may say as jambo does that it's because Canada's full of "maudits Anglais", whom we hate and don't want to be associated to in any way, and I guess that's true for some people. But if you allow me to tell you how I personally feel, I'm very incomfortable with the self-righteousness of Canadian culture which to me is very foreign. I'm not saying without this I'd feel Canadian, I also have an issue with how it seems like I'm being told, even by federalists and by English Canadians, to "choose" between my Quebec identity and subsuming it into a "Canadian" one which doesn't feel natural, but I am saying it's unappealing to me.
Not part of your culture to do so ? What a crock of unmitigated crappola! That's ALL you do at every opportunity awarded or manufactured as is very graphically demonstrated on these pages.
Every post structured to denigrate Canada is veritably dripping with the syrupy superiority of the French Canadian culture to anything else while of course, being very careful to delineate between the two similar burgeoning English cultures your butt cheeks are constantly touching, so as to not unnecessarily insult the one to your south.
Not part of your culture to do so ? What a crock of unmitigated crappola! That's ALL you do at every opportunity awarded or manufactured as is very graphically demonstrated on these pages.
Every post structured to denigrate Canada is veritably dripping with the syrupy superiority of the French Canadian culture to anything else while of course, being very careful to delineate between the two similar burgeoning English cultures your butt cheeks are constantly touching, so as to not unnecessarily insult the one to your south.
Comical.
Well, it is often said that Québec and the US are somewhat insular when compared to English Canada. One unexpected effect of this is that Anglo-Canada seems to have its nose stuck on its neighbours' windows, peering inside, looking for stuff to point the finger at. And not looking as often in its own home. It is pretty obvious when you talk to average people and they are more aware of police shootings in the US and Anglo disrespect incidents in Qc than they are of cross burnings in NS or serial killers targeting native women on the Prairies.
BTW in another forum I fréquent someone just posted about the HitchBot and how it is an example of American badness and Canadian goodness.
Funny.
Its interesting that HitchBot made is safely through two major US cities. One with a metro population of 20.1 million the other with a population of 4.5 million people. So two cities that combine for a population equal to the Provinces of Ontario, BC, Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan combined safely welcomed HitchBot into their homes.
So I guess using the logic of these geniuses, The USA possesses just as much "goodness" as 70% of Canada. Not too bad for the violent cesspool better known as the States.
Well, it is often said that Québec and the US are somewhat insular when compared to English Canada. One unexpected effect of this is that Anglo-Canada seems to have its nose stuck on its neighbours' windows, peering inside, looking for stuff to point the finger at. And not looking as often in its own home. It is pretty obvious when you talk to average people and they are more aware of police shootings in the US and Anglo disrespect incidents in Qc than they are of cross burnings in NS or serial killers targeting native women on the Prairies.
It is what it is.
Sorry to disagree but using "it is often said" does not make it any more realistic and actual than "in my opinion" would.
We do not have our noses "stuck to our neighbours window" by choice and you know this. You know also that we do NOT go looking for stuff to point the finger at. All of that bumph presents itself like a bad case of shingles without necessarily being invited.
Living next door to the Kardashians one could only imagine you'd be inundated with all of the goings on without even looking out your window. Expressing an opinion after being deluged with all of that input then being castigated for doing so seems akin to hunting lions in Zimbabwae...throw the bait out there then wait for someone to discuss it to then accuse them of expressing an unsolicited opinion.
A no-win scenario if ever there was one.
Strange my daily news today is featuring a shooting in Toronto with acknowledging a spike of shootings in the big smoke ...nothing at all about anything in the U.S. . In other words...If there is something of note to report in Canada versus the plethora of daily stuff happening in the U.S. it will get discussed and opinions will be expressed in just as broad a manner.
Should our neighbour to the south desire negative opinions or superior attitudes towards them not to be developed and expressed; by the rest of the world and not exclusively Canada, they know what is necessary to achieve that. If they're content with being who they are, well one can only suggest: 'you broke it, you own it'.
Most Canadians have no problem accepting accurate and legitimate criticism. We do so all the time from any number of sources including Quebec and the U.S.
It could even be opined our shoulder shrugs towards slurs emanating from those two in particular are because we've become inured to those critiques and ignore them more readily due to them being expected regardless of their credibility.
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