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Old 08-21-2015, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
Fusion, you're totally right. I confused my love for the old Mirage/Kfir with the new Rafale. Saab, I'm just not sure. The Grippen doesn't instill a lot of confidence, and it's not widely used. But anything is better than the cluster that is the F35. I know they want to lean on the US suppliers, but I think it would have been neat to have a Rafale, and something that's just not a hotter engine different paint job than the USAF/USN

I don't mean to sound dismissive of Canada's role. I was born and raised in Canada for 35+ years, and have been living in the states for the past eight years, and I travel the world fairly extensively for work. I just know, from experience, and even still dealing with friends/family/associates in Canada that we have a distorted look at our place in the world. I would put Canada below Australia in terms of influence, as at least they're a regional power in Oceana, while most Canadians seem to think we're up there falling in behind the UK and Germany. There may be the odd conversation about things the Canadian government has done, but it's not a replacement of good things being said, it's just that for once someone noticed anything.

While Natnasci and PB can debate between the direction of socialist environmental paradise and Mad Max wasteland US 2.0, the reality is somewhere in the middle. The Harper government is nowhere near a right wing neo-con party, they're just conservative for Canada, which in itself is a knee jerk reaction to economic uncertainty.

When the economy globally is up and running smoothly, Canada will return to a Liberal paradise. That being said, if we don't make our own defense a huge priority, we're going to find that other people will be running the Canadian Arctic and we'll have no say at all.
From what I know of the Gripen it is quite reliable and would perform the requirements of the job more than adequately.. I'm not sure what you mean by doesn't instill confidence.. Brazil is a customer and is buying up to 108 of them.. Other users include Hungary, Thailand, Czech Republic, South Africa and of course Sweden.. This has met with more export success than either the Rafale or Super Hornet. Its a capable platform but perhaps there is something about it I don't know.. Certainly you could by almost two Gripens for the price of 1 F35 or 1 Rafale. Its a fully Nato compliant aircraft.

As for Canada - I'm not talking about how 'general' people view us around the world, i'm talking about how we relate to goverments around the world and how that WILL have an impact on trade.. If one thinks that the leader of the Canadian government can go around the world with a reckless approach and poor diplomacy and it'll just be ignored because Canada is irrelevant I think that is woefully underestimating geopolitics.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-21-2015 at 05:04 PM..
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Good points. I agree and can't believe the contrary is being seriously argued.
AJ with all due respect not sure if you've been reading the posts.. The claims I have made anyway are not about overstating Canada's influence.. What I've written is how our government and how our leader does indeed represent our nation and if he (any Canadian leader) goes around and peeves off the leaders of other nations yes it will be noticed.. I can't believe anyone would think that Canada is so irrelevant that it doesn't matter what our leader says or how poor his/her diplomacy skills are because nobody cares anyway.. This isn't an argument about Canadian influence, its an argument about how we engage with the world around us and yes, a first world nation which trades heavily with other nations well if the leader of it is a d*c* and unnecessarily fans flames with other nations the results won't be positive for Canada - will they?

Last edited by fusion2; 08-21-2015 at 04:59 PM..
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,593 posts, read 11,079,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
From what I know of the Gripen it is quite reliable and would perform the requirements of the job more than adequately.. I'm not sure what you mean by doesn't instill confidence.. Its a capable platform but perhaps there is something about it I don't know.. Certainly you could by almost two Gripens for the price of 1 F35 or Rafale.

As for Canada - I'm not talking about how 'general' people view us around the world, i'm talking about how we relate to goverments around the world and how that WILL have an impact on trade.. If one thinks that the leader of the Canadian government can go around the world with a reckless approach and poor diplomacy and it'll just be ignored because Canada is irrelevant I think that is woefully underestimating geopolitics.
I think range/loadout capacity were two of the issues that got the Grippen discounted fairly quickly. There's supposedly a "Super Grippen" in the works, but it may be too little too late. If it wasn't for recent developments, we should have seriously considered the SU-35.

As far as poor diplomacy etc. Harper is a figurehead. Diplomacy is done in the back room by career professionals. The talking heads come and go, the diplomats stick around forever. As far has him being viewed as a ********, well, he's in good company in the G8/G20, as there's no shortage of them. I think people are just surprised that we're actually saying anything instead of just sitting quietly wanting everyone to get along.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post

As far as poor diplomacy etc. Harper is a figurehead. Diplomacy is done in the back room by career professionals. The talking heads come and go, the diplomats stick around forever. As far has him being viewed as a ********, well, he's in good company in the G8/G20, as there's no shortage of them. I think people are just surprised that we're actually saying anything instead of just sitting quietly wanting everyone to get along.
I'll take 120 Gripen NG's over 65 Rafale's or F35's any day thanks

http://gripen4canada.blogspot.ca/p/t...pable-and.html

Well of course Harper isn't the only cog in the wheel when it comes to Canadian diplomacy but to dismiss him or our leader as a figurehead I think is just a little too dismissive for my liking.. I think he has the power to **** foreign leaders/governments off and like it or lump it what he says will impact the perception of our nation in the eyes of other leaders/governments..

Policy cost Canada UN seat: ex-ambassador - Politics - CBC News

Regardless of how influential or how much of a figurehead he is though, i'll take one who is a little more smooth around the edges and would decide not to publicly diss world leaders. Lets not confuse figurehead with just letting him off the hook here because we think he's irrelevant anyway.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-21-2015 at 05:23 PM..
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,593 posts, read 11,079,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I'll take 120 Gripen NG's over 65 Rafale's or F35's any day thanks

Gripen for Canada: Why the Saab Gripen NG is right for Canada

Well of course Harper isn't the only cog in the wheel when it comes to Canadian diplomacy but to dismiss him or our leader as a figurehead I think is just a little too dismissive for my liking.. I think he has the power to **** foreign leaders/governments off and like it or lump it what he says will impact the perception of our nation in the eyes of other leaders/governments..

Policy cost Canada UN seat: ex-ambassador - Politics - CBC News

Regardless of how influential or how much of a figurehead he is though, i'll take one who is a little more smooth around the edges and would decide not to publicly diss world leaders. Lets not confuse figurehead with just letting him off the hook here because we think he's irrelevant anyway.
I won't argue that at all. That being said, I wouldn't choose either of the other two available muppets for the role.

F35 is a waste. The Gripen NG looks cool. I was reading up on it just now. I'm convinced we should get the Gripen and buy some of the USAF A10's just because they're cool, and would look better with a bear/beaver front end than a shark mouth.
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I won't argue that at all. That being said, I wouldn't choose either of the other two available muppets for the role.

F35 is a waste. The Gripen NG looks cool. I was reading up on it just now. I'm convinced we should get the Gripen and buy some of the USAF A10's just because they're cool, and would look better with a bear/beaver front end than a shark mouth.
Ok politics aside, I like you a whole lot more now

Last edited by fusion2; 08-21-2015 at 07:41 PM..
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:31 PM
 
873 posts, read 814,965 times
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I am making a prediction and I will stick to it to the end: Harper will end up in third place.
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:36 PM
 
Location: n/a
1,189 posts, read 802,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM10 View Post
I am making a prediction and I will stick to it to the end: Harper will end up in third place.
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:25 AM
 
Location: n/a
1,189 posts, read 802,609 times
Reputation: 1341
Interesting...

Quote:
The poll tested six permutations of government, and there is a clear preference among Canadians for two versions – both of which exclude the Conservatives:

● NDP governing with support from the Liberals – 55% support (20% strongly/35% somewhat) vs. 45% oppose (25% strongly/20% somewhat). A majority of both NDP (87%) and Liberal (68%) voters support this type of government.

● Liberals governing with support from the NDP – 53% support (15% strongly/38% somewhat) vs. 47% oppose (25% strongly/22% somewhat). A majority of both Liberal (87%) and NDP (66%) voters support it.
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:32 AM
 
873 posts, read 814,965 times
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I have a feeling that the NDP will win a minority. Unless Trudeau really steps up his game in getting votes. For now I don't see that happening and it seems people trust Mulcair the most as a leader out of the three. I do see Mulcair the most likely out of the three to "get things done". He seems the most serious about the position though Trudaeu seems the most passionate. I do feel Mulcair is most likely to stick to his promises and get things done. It's simply time for Harper to go.
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