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Old 08-19-2015, 01:01 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
Reputation: 1810

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
It's a shocking video really. So much anger. Also it's a tired old trick to attack the person asking questions. His take on cheating on income taxes says more about him than he realized.

To sum him up....he's simply an ignorant, brainwashed jerk.
Hahahaha this is awesome.

The guy played right into the journalists' questions. This is election season, and every news outlet is on the look out for this kind of material, and he has just provided what they need. Too bad the guy's a nobody so this will all blow over after 3 days.
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,673 posts, read 8,740,385 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Hahahaha this is awesome.

The guy played right into the journalists' questions. This is election season, and every news outlet is on the look out for this kind of material, and he has just provided what they need. Too bad the guy's a nobody so this will all blow over after 3 days.
Ah, but here's the rub. Apparently he is not a nobody. I've heard, but as yet unconfirmed, that he was on the junket with Harper to the Ukraine.

Time will tell of course. Stay tuned !!
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Montreal
359 posts, read 264,122 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I could of listed the hundreds of things Harper has done to Canada to Bottie, but I fear it will fall on deaf ears.
Anyone who isn't really,really upset about what he has done to Canada is either not paying attention, a devout and possibly brainwashed Con, or NEVER understood Canada and our history, our beliefs, our purpose etc.
I tend to think Bottie falls into the last one.
The summary of your posts on this thread: If someone disagrees with your version of Canada then they aren't "real" Canadians. Get over it, there are neocons here just like in many other places. You can't just pick and choose different features of Canada to call "real" Canadian and throw our the rest as misunderstood (or better yet, American).

Natnasci, maybe you can educate us on the real purpose of Canada, as you claim? I thought the "real" purpose of Canada was to be a French fur trading centre? What is "real" Canadian history as your understand it? A group of foreign people conquering another group, making them subservient, and exterminating the indigenous inhabitants? I am guessing that part of our history, the most central part, is whitewashed in order to serve your personal ideology, no? Lastly, be so kind as to explain our Canadian beliefs? I assume that to make such a claim you are a fluently bilingual Canadian with experience living in all ten provinces, of course!

If not can you please explain what true Canadian beliefs, history and true Canadian purpose is? We don't want to confuse the beliefs, history and purpose of those Canadians who elected Harper in the first place with the set of values that you deem "Canadian".

Can you enlighten us on the steps to becoming "real" Canadians (as advertised by Natnasci)?
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Montreal
359 posts, read 264,122 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
yes, you are right, I am the last one. And I have absolutely no intention to change myself so that I "fit" with the "Canadian belief" better. I hold on to my own beliefs which I consider right.

As to history, Canada has its own constitution for like 30 years only, before that it was pretty much part of the UK, so there is a LONG way to go to create its own history and identify. You are a senior if I am not wrong, you don't happen to think Canada's culture and history is always set in stone and shouldn't be allowed to change, and every new comer should simply adapt to you, do you? If you do, you will be hugely disappointed. People like me will continue to change it, in directions whether you like or not. As long as Canada continues receiving immigrants, the country will change. I can assure you new immigrants come here mostly for the better life, not some Canadian value because they have their own. Even if Canada stops receive immigration, it will also change.

When you talk about purpose, I suppose you are talking about the aggressive role Harper government is playing (or trying to play) internationally, and on that I totally agree with you. I don't think any country should make any attempt to spread any culture or ideology to other nations, no matter how great it thinks it is. Everyone should just mind his own business.
And you shouldn't have to change yourself, Boticelli. You are doing just fine.
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,433,356 times
Reputation: 3257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
It's a shocking video really. So much anger. Also it's a tired old trick to attack the person asking questions. His take on cheating on income taxes says more about him than he realized.

To sum him up....he's simply an ignorant, brainwashed jerk.
Yeah, pretty bad. I'm glad the reporters kept their cool, and just let him run his mouth.
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I just want to clarify a couple of things so that I'm not misinterpreting what you're saying.

So by going along with a UN resolutions to Afghanistan and Libya, you believe that the Government is openly criticizing the UN, which passed the resolutions in the first place?

Also, you're saying that you support Russia's arbitrary annexation of another country's territory under spurious grounds, and you support ISIL's actions in Iraq and Syria?

I don't think that's the case, but it is what you've said above.
Well i'll clarify some views..

Its not just black and white Mike.. There are some things in Harper's FP that have been fine and that the other parties would have done to some degree.. There is always naivety and politics involved when you aren't the governing party and I get that. I'm speaking on the whole here..

Afghanistan isn't just Harper - the libs got us involved in that but not quite sure we really should have regardless of party lines.. Libya regardless of UN was probably a mistake.. I think we have learned that in the M.E and North Africa that perhaps stirring up a hornets nest isn't the best approach! Bombing ISIL in Iraq and Syria - not required.. The U.S doesn't need us and not even the UK has resorted to bombing Syria.. Besides, have these actions benefitted us in the eyes of the U.S - Obama didn't give us Keystone.. Now i'm not defending Obama here, his decision re keystone entirely political - but man again Harper instead of being measured and diplomatic publicly embarrasses Obama about it in his own country.. Did Harper really think this tactic was going to work - NO it just really peeved off Obama and all but ensured we wouldn't get Keystone.. Harper should have kept things behind the scenes. Something he's really not good at. He think publicly 'shaming' is effective and 'principled' - no its not especially from nations like Canada and say Switzerland, Norway, Spain etc - nations that aren't simply military powers.

With that said, do you not think ideologically at the very least Harper has been more critical of the UN than he should have been? I ask that before going into more detail about Canada and the UN.

As for where he has taken us - Canada is not a military power... It hasn't been since WWII.. So why are we taking such an aggressive stance... We're like a domestic cat trying to roar like a Jaguar when we simply aren't a jaguar.. Other nations know this.. Does this mean Harper shouldn't have imposed sanctions on Russia or made it known that invading a sovereign nation in this day in age is wrong - of course not but he doesn't have to be so VOCAL about it.. Telling Putin to 'Get Out' of Ukraine in such a public manner - leave that up to the United States, France's and UK's of the world. He's actually hurting Canada by doing this and being so public about it has had an impact on our economy more than it had to.. Make a point but do it in step with what we have chosen to be - a nation that brokers peace and conciliation and makes a point but in a diplomatic fashion, behind the scenes - parallel to the historical course we've chosen for ourselves post WWII - not telling the second most powerful nation in the world to 'Get Out' when Obama, Hollande, Merkel, Cameron and Abbot were playing with Koala bears.. We can barely even manage to muster one diesel submarine into battle condition and we're telling a man with thousands of nuclear warheads and scores of Nuclear Submarines to 'GET OUT' of Ukraine in front of the world - c'mon!.

His bromance with Netanyahu has just been strange.. Again, support Israel and its right to be a sovereign nation and yes, challenge those who would compromise it but what is closing down Iran's embassy going to do or not taking a more balanced approach to the Palestinian state going to do other than hurt us.. Even the UK didn't take such a stand and it is actually a decent military power.. Its kept diplomatic lines open and now we just look like moron's with Iran now that the nuclear deal has been brokered..

Mike - we don't even have supply ships anymore in this country.. The HMCS Protecteur and Preserver are out of commission and on Harper's watch and he's done nothing. These are essential to supplying our military and for transporting humanitarian goods/supplies around the world - we don't even have that capability..

I can go on Mike - but on the whole no i'm not happy with Mr Harper's FP approach and I think a more balanced, diplomatic and nuanced leader would do us good on the world stage.. Mr Harper has had a decade to be that leader and he just hasn't succeeded in that realm. Its time for a change.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-19-2015 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Another Harper supporter. I wonder if he's a member on this fourm.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv6Pq5nNjN4
Real winner here lol...

Last edited by fusion2; 08-19-2015 at 10:12 PM..
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,575 posts, read 11,065,012 times
Reputation: 10280
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well i'll clarify some views..

Its not just black and white Mike.. There are some things in Harper's FP that have been fine and that the other parties would have done to some degree.. There is always naivety and politics involved when you aren't the governing party and I get that. I'm speaking on the whole here..

Afghanistan isn't just Harper - the libs got us involved in that but not quite sure we really should have regardless of party lines.. Libya regardless of UN was probably a mistake.. I think we have learned that in the M.E and North Africa that perhaps stirring up a hornets nest isn't the best approach! Bombing ISIL in Iraq and Syria - not required.. The U.S doesn't need us and not even the UK has resorted to bombing Syria.. Besides, have these actions benefitted us in the eyes of the U.S - Obama didn't give us Keystone.. Now i'm not defending Obama here, his decision re keystone entirely political - but man again Harper instead of being measured and diplomatic publicly embarrasses Obama about it in his own country.. Did Harper really think this tactic was going to work - NO it just really peeved off Obama and all but ensured we wouldn't get Keystone.. Harper should have kept things behind the scenes. Something he's really not good at. He think publicly 'shaming' is effective and 'principled' - no its not especially from nations like Canada and say Switzerland, Norway, Spain etc - nations that aren't simply military powers.

With that said, do you not think ideologically at the very least Harper has been more critical of the UN than he should have been? I ask that before going into more detail about Canada and the UN.

As for where he has taken us - Canada is not a military power... It hasn't been since WWII.. So why are we taking such an aggressive stance... We're like a domestic cat trying to roar like a Jaguar when we simply aren't a jaguar.. Other nations know this.. Does this mean Harper shouldn't have imposed sanctions on Russia or made it known that invading a sovereign nation in this day in age is wrong - of course not but he doesn't have to be so VOCAL about it.. Telling Putin to 'Get Out' of Ukraine in such a public manner - leave that up to the United States, France's and UK's of the world. He's actually hurting Canada by doing this and being so public about it has had an impact on our economy more than it had to.. Make a point but do it in step with what we have chosen to be - a nation that brokers peace and conciliation and makes a point but in a diplomatic fashion, behind the scenes - parallel to the historical course we've chosen for ourselves post WWII - not telling the second most powerful nation in the world to 'Get Out' when Obama, Hollande, Merkel, Cameron and Abbot were playing with Koala bears.. We can barely even manage to muster one diesel submarine into battle condition and we're telling a man with thousands of nuclear warheads and scores of Nuclear Submarines to 'GET OUT' of Ukraine in front of the world - c'mon!.

His bromance with Netanyahu has just been strange.. Again, support Israel and its right to be a sovereign nation and yes, challenge those who would compromise it but what is closing down Iran's embassy going to do or not taking a more balanced approach to the Palestinian state going to do other than hurt us.. Even the UK didn't take such a stand and it is actually a decent military power.. Its kept diplomatic lines open and now we just look like moron's with Iran now that the nuclear deal has been brokered..

Mike - we don't even have supply ships anymore in this country.. The HMCS Protecteur and Preserver are out of commission and on Harper's watch and he's done nothing. These are essential to supplying our military and for transporting humanitarian goods/supplies around the world - we don't even have that capability..

I can go on Mike - but on the whole no i'm not happy with Mr Harper's FP approach and I think a more balanced, diplomatic and nuanced leader would do us good on the world stage.. Mr Harper has had a decade to be that leader and he just hasn't succeeded in that realm. Its time for a change.
First of all, I would never thing you're "wrong" for thinking what you do, as it's your opinion. I don't disagree with your points, but share a differing view on some of them.

I totally agree with the fact that we're a declawed house cat looking to pick a fight with a Bear, but part of that stance is for internal political reasons as much as it is in principle, and I think part of it is foreshadowing our future.

A large part of the Prairies, and the Conservative base can trace their roots back to Ukraine, and a number of other Slavic countries. Standing up to the mean ol' Russians plays well, just like preventing abortions and hating gays plays well to the Republican base in the US. The other piece is that Canada is going to be duking it out with Russia in the media and international courts over the Arctic. It's important to be seen as someone who is willing to stand up for the underdog, as we're going to need all the help we can get in the near future, and who knows what UN votes you may need. You don't have Russia, but if you can pick up some of their nervous neighbours for support, that's never a bad thing.

As far as everything else goes for Canada, no one gives a crap. Really. Canada's profile is so low internationally, long before Harper, that there is no "image" other than the nice people in America's hat. Hell there's a thread where everyone pretty much throws up their hands and says we're an American dependency. For all the hand wringing and everything else, other than Canadians, no on cares. We are an afterthought. A large part of that is that our international profile is that we're "nice". Vanilla, bland, uninteresting. We don't stand for anything because we just want everyone to get along. All of that is perfectly fine, but having leadership that believes in something, even if you disagree with it, is better than just pushing through, filling your pockets and not pissing anyone off. At least if there is disagreement, there's discussion, and hopefully a better result for everyone.

Oh and I totally agree about our military being gutted, but that's more the result of a generation of neglect and lack of planning by previous governments than the fault of the one in power. Look at the howling whenever the thought of spending any money for icebreakers or other military hardware is brought up. F35 is a total debacle though. We should have pulled the pin years ago and gone with the Super Hornet or the Mirage.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:48 PM
 
732 posts, read 853,160 times
Reputation: 1563
I usually dont read long posts but I am glad I read that last one from Mikeyyc, now I know not everyone on this sub forum has misplaced sensibilities.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,673 posts, read 8,740,385 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
The summary of your posts on this thread: If someone disagrees with your version of Canada then they aren't "real" Canadians. Get over it, there are neocons here just like in many other places. You can't just pick and choose different features of Canada to call "real" Canadian and throw our the rest as misunderstood (or better yet, American).

Natnasci, maybe you can educate us on the real purpose of Canada, as you claim? I thought the "real" purpose of Canada was to be a French fur trading centre? What is "real" Canadian history as your understand it? A group of foreign people conquering another group, making them subservient, and exterminating the indigenous inhabitants? I am guessing that part of our history, the most central part, is whitewashed in order to serve your personal ideology, no? Lastly, be so kind as to explain our Canadian beliefs? I assume that to make such a claim you are a fluently bilingual Canadian with experience living in all ten provinces, of course!

If not can you please explain what true Canadian beliefs, history and true Canadian purpose is? We don't want to confuse the beliefs, history and purpose of those Canadians who elected Harper in the first place with the set of values that you deem "Canadian".

Can you enlighten us on the steps to becoming "real" Canadians (as advertised by Natnasci)?
Extreme right wing politics of this style...Harper style...is not a Canadian political tradition. It is from the US.
The extreme right in the US is where Harper gets his style of politics.

I don't believe I have ever used the term "real Canadian ", that is your take.

I know from your posts that you are blind to English speaking Canada and simply refuse to believe that we have an identity and a vision of what Canada is.

Canada as a peacemaker not a war maker.
Canada as a place where the common good has importance
Canada as a place where people see healthcare as a human right
Canada as a place that values diversity and equality for all
The physical size of the country which such a small population also has an effect on our identity.
There is a myriad of values and traditions that have bound this country together. In some ways it's a miracle that with such a large land mass and such a small population that this country even exists and work...or used to work before the Cons have set on destroying it.


Harper and his neocons are the opposite of that vision...or haven't you been paying attention?
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