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Old 08-19-2015, 08:44 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,313,266 times
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I don't want to encourage or discourage you, but the US is not exactly homogeneous, maybe it is easier for you to study and live in a more liberal state? For example, I heard MA and CA are quite liberal and have relative high taxes and regulation too.

Community based? I am not sure what that means honestly. I don't think Canada is that different from the US in that respect. I am afraid you are romantizing Canada just because you don't like how things work in the US. We all tend to do that.

I think the American style overly patriotism is pretty childish. It is a GREAT country but I am afraid many Americans read too much local news and don't travel enough to realize the outside world is not as bad as they are taught.

Why not do your degree in Canada and then decide if you want to stay? Only by actually living here will you know if you really like it. There will be no issues and you will decide if you can tolerate them.

As to math, I don't think at your age you should think too much about jobs/money. It is way too early. Do what makes you happy first. With a PHD in math, you can either go pure academic, or switch to something more practical. A lot of the wall street guys have math/physics background just so you know. It is not like "gender study" or philosophy which almost guarantees you will struggle for the rest of your life financially, LOL.
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:50 AM
 
449 posts, read 281,419 times
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Zoisite, well, the thing is, I've never really felt patriotic for any country before (I was born in one country, with the nationality of another country, raised in the U.S., and travelled a lot before moving to the U.S. at age 5). But that's a huge reason I want to move to Canada; I feel like I'll actually WANT to contribute to it. Like it would feel completely natural to call myself a Canadian. After all, my tax money would go to things that I actually agree with. That's a crucial difference between how I feel between the U.S. and Canada; I'm an American out of circumstance and convenience, but I want to move to Canada because I like it, agree with its principles, and want to make it even better. I think Canada is great despite the cold, the fact that it is easier to get rich and powerful in America, and the "boringness" a lot of people see in it. Maybe you and Zenstyle are right by saying I should stay in the U.S. and improve it, but I can't really say I have enough hope for the country, unfortunately.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:25 AM
 
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Botticelli, I think you're right. After all, Canada is heavily influenced by the U.S., so the differences I perceive between the two are probably exaggerated. However, I still don't think it would be fair to say that differences don't exist at all. And yes, I actually was planning to get a study permit and get my PhD in Canada so I can see what the country's really like. I could then either return to the states or get a work permit and stay in Canada if I like it there. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.
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Old 08-19-2015, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Montreal
579 posts, read 471,191 times
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Or perhaps you dislike the overly stringent time limits of many European math PhD programs...
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Old 08-20-2015, 05:38 PM
 
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Just remember that if you decide to pursue graduate studies in Canada, you'll be coming in as a foreign student and you'll face foreign student tuition fees that are substantially higher than what Canadians pay.

Also, as others have said, it's not just easy-peezy to move to Canada even after graduating. You would have to emigrate and would face additional challenges being a foreigner and trying to get a job. You would have to get a work visa etc. You don't just get citizenship right away.

Also, you might want to note that the cost of living is much more expensive in most Canadian cities than it is in much of the U.S. Rents are sky-high in places like Toronto or Vancouver. Food, gas, utilities cost a lot more.
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Old 08-20-2015, 06:03 PM
 
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But don't PhD students (at least in math) typically get paid a stipend and other funding to pay for tuition? But I guess you're right about the cost of living. That could be a problem. My parents are probably going to have to support me like they do now, although it really would have been nice to be financially independent by then. As for getting a work visa, I can't really say anything about that at this point; I won't be applying for one until the end of grad school, which is years away.
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Old 08-20-2015, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,188,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post

Also, you might want to note that the cost of living is much more expensive in most Canadian cities than it is in much of the U.S. Rents are sky-high in places like Toronto or Vancouver. Food, gas, utilities cost a lot more.
This is a pretty broad based conclusion.. I can't speak for Vancouver but in the case of Toronto rent is far from being 'sky high' for the 4th largest city on the continent.. Its not difficult to find a 1 bdrm for about a grand or even less and a 2bdrm for 1200 or a bit less - including all utilities.. Food is a bit cheaper in the U.S - but like anywhere depends on where you shop.. I can cut my grocery bill by 30 percent or more by shopping at No Frills or Food Basics vs Sobey's or Loblaw's... Sure there are cheapo places you can get food in the U.S as well but still, a lot of people quote the highest possible prices when they say Canada is more 'expensive.. There are certainly plenty of ways to mitigate costs. Yes, we have dollar stores, sales and Value villages too lol..

One thing to note - Dunkin Donuts medium coffee costs 2.04 cents USD (bought in Owego New York 3 weeks ago) for the most bland cup of coffee anywhere in the world - seriously worse than instant Maxwell House..... A medium Tim Horton's coffee in Toronto 1.75 CAD all over the city and much nicer coffee too
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Montreal
579 posts, read 471,191 times
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Quote:
Just remember that if you decide to pursue graduate studies in Canada, you'll be coming in as a foreign student and you'll face foreign student tuition fees that are substantially higher than what Canadians pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
But don't PhD students (at least in math) typically get paid a stipend and other funding to pay for tuition? But I guess you're right about the cost of living. That could be a problem. My parents are probably going to have to support me like they do now, although it really would have been nice to be financially independent by then. As for getting a work visa, I can't really say anything about that at this point; I won't be applying for one until the end of grad school, which is years away.
Ontario schools have to provide additional funding to offset the higher tuition, compared to the domestic salary.

Because the Ontario government levies penalties to universities when they take too many international research students ($8k for each excess international research student in STEM disciplines), for these two reasons, it's becoming very hard for internationals to attend Ontario universities for a PhD. And math is one field where international grad students seem to be abundant.

Suppose a domestic math PhD student costs $30k to a given Ontario university. If you factor in the cost differential for international students, plus the $8k penalty, the cost of taking international students can be almost double that of domestic students.

I would say, based on this, avoid Ontario universities for grad school at ANY COST! Not quite, but unless you want to attend lesser-known Ontario programs that are not penalized (Windsor)... look at other provinces. You would probably stand a better chance at Ivy League schools (UPenn in particular, since they have PDE people) than you would at Queen's (for example) in the current condition of Ontario math grad programs.
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Old 08-21-2015, 12:31 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,772,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
Hello! If you're American, I'm sorry, but I'm going to say some not-very-nice things about the country; please don't take it personally!

I've been living in the U.S. since I was 5, but ever since I became a citizen in May, I've felt like I don't want to be a part of the country anymore. Like I'm not a true American. I think most people here are good, but I'm quite frustrated with the system as a whole. During the Oath of Allegiance ceremony, everyone else was so patriotic while I cared only about the benefits citizenship would give me. I used to agree with most of America's values (individualism, less taxation/regulation in the economy, not too liberal). But as I grew, I started to prefer what seem to be Canada's values (community-oriented, higher taxes/welfare to help the needy, liberal, peace) more and more. And I feel like the U.S. is a bit of a bully to the rest of the world; I don't want my future tax money to contribute to such a militaristic nation. I've visited Canada (only Ontario so far) a few times and loved it; I'm absolutely smitten by the country based on what I've seen and read about it. I know every country has problems, but I think I'll be happy there. Am I being delusional?

Also, I'm a college kid hoping to pursue a math PhD, and I was wondering if I could go to grad school in Canada. The problem is that I don't know if I'll end up with a job afterwards. I just want a math-related job; it doesn't even have to be in academia. TBH, I'm really scared for my future and I'll be screwed if the math thing doesn't work out; math is the one thing I don't completely suck at. Are the job prospects for math PhD's really bad in Canada? Can I expect to get a job that doesn't involve driving taxis or working at McDonald's?

One last thing: I'm a Muslim. Will I be hated for my religion in Canada? Thankfully, people are pretty tolerant where I live.

Thank you in advance, and sorry for the long, rambling post!
Yeah i feel ya, feel the same way living here aswell, i like the country as in the land/cities/natural landmarks etc but not so much the government. patriotism and nationalism don't make sense, people taking their nationalities too seriously don't make sense to me... I'm American but i don't put any big meaning to it, i refer to myself by my name most of the time. quotes like "i don't feel like i become part of this country" don't make too much sense to me.

Anyways here are some links that could hopefully help you out.

Determine your eligibility – Citizenship

College in Canada more appealing than ever for Americans?

https://www.mcgill.ca/student-accoun...ition-and-fees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
Thanks for the reply, Zenstyle!

I understand what you're saying, and while there are citizens who share my views, I'm afraid that with all the citizens who DISAGREE with me, there's not much I can do. Unfortunately, the media has mislead many, many otherwise good Americans. Had I not come from another country,, I probably would have fallen into the same trap. I don't think the country will change that much within my lifetime, and until it does, I will be contributing to all the awful things America does until I leave it.

I understand that moving to Canada will not be easy, but I'd be willing to work for it, and hopefully my US citizenship and future grad school education should at least make things a little easier.
Not trying to sound mean but a big part of life that a lot of people fail to get is understanding that not everyone is going to have the same beliefs as you, and peoples beliefs don't make them any more or less of a good person. but once you become more open minded towards other people life will become easier and you will be less angry with other people, its nice.
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:20 PM
 
449 posts, read 281,419 times
Reputation: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvanung View Post
Ontario schools have to provide additional funding to offset the higher tuition, compared to the domestic salary.

Because the Ontario government levies penalties to universities when they take too many international research students ($8k for each excess international research student in STEM disciplines), for these two reasons, it's becoming very hard for internationals to attend Ontario universities for a PhD. And math is one field where international grad students seem to be abundant.

Suppose a domestic math PhD student costs $30k to a given Ontario university. If you factor in the cost differential for international students, plus the $8k penalty, the cost of taking international students can be almost double that of domestic students.

I would say, based on this, avoid Ontario universities for grad school at ANY COST! Not quite, but unless you want to attend lesser-known Ontario programs that are not penalized (Windsor)... look at other provinces. You would probably stand a better chance at Ivy League schools (UPenn in particular, since they have PDE people) than you would at Queen's (for example) in the current condition of Ontario math grad programs.
Yikes! Well, that's a shame. Ontario's the province I'm geographically closest to. But I'd still be happy studying in a different province (except Quebec; I don't speak French). Thanks for the info, although I'll still apply to the University of Toronto because it wouldn't hurt to try.
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