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Lastly, home and auto insurance in the US will be a literal FRACTION of what we pay up here. So much so that it isn't even funny. We're talking less than 30% of our current expense to insure our home and cars in either FL or AZ, as calculated a few weeks ago.
In other words, we say things are more expensive up here BECAUSE THEY ARE! At least the things in day to day life, in comparable cities (with comparable opportunity) AND you guys get better selection. Note that an intelligent Canadian will factor in the cost of health care when considering relocating to the US, so the price advantage isn't QUITE as big of a gap since health insurance is so expensive... But it's still considerably cheaper to live in the US even factoring that in.
You might want to double check just what that car insurance covers out there. In Manitoba we have public car insurance which covers third party liability among other things automatically as a condition of getting a vehicle one road. In at least some parts of the U.S., my understanding is that you only have to carry very basic coverage if you own your vehicle outright. I think one is automtically covered here for $200,000 either way. And you also get a basic deductible - I think it is $500. You can buy additional insurance or lower your deductible through public insurance or private insurance but at least you will have some protection even if the other party in an accident doesn't carry any (which would be illegal).
What you pay for insurance here also depends on your driving record.
I'm not saying it isn't cheaper in the US since for all I know, it is. I just want to be sure you're comparing apples to apples if you move south and don't run into a nasty surprise.
(I've always heard that Ontario's insurance is insanely high but I don't know from personal experience.)
While I agree with a lot of what you're saying....
I really think you should be comparing Toronto area real estate prices with US Cities
like NYC LA SF and Boston.....much closer
Yeah, Orlando Phoenix and Houston are deals ...but not everywhere.....
even parts of south Florida like Naples are expensive too.
I have zero interest in living in Boston, NYC, LA, or SF, so I don't have that information. I agree that on paper the cities you mention are more technically similar to Toronto, but for purely practical purposes, Phoenix and Orlando are appropriate comparisons in that they offer the same (actually, greater) ability to generate income in my field as the GTA, while being much cheaper to live. Obviously there is no use comparing the GTA to more rural areas of the US, where the income potential isn't comparable, but since that's not the case with Phoenix or Orlando in my situation, I felt the points were relevant. Either city offers the ability to have comparable (arguably better) quality of life in terms of recreation and entertainment from my PERSONAL perspective, as well. For someone that really requires a more cosmopolitan city, the comparison I made may not be as suitable. Some people really like cities like NY and LA.
You might want to double check just what that car insurance covers out there. In Manitoba we have public car insurance which covers third party liability among other things automatically as a condition of getting a vehicle one road. In at least some parts of the U.S., my understanding is that you only have to carry very basic coverage if you own your vehicle outright. I think one is automtically covered here for $200,000 either way. And you also get a basic deductible - I think it is $500. You can buy additional insurance or lower your deductible through public insurance or private insurance but at least you will have some protection even if the other party in an accident doesn't carry any (which would be illegal).
What you pay for insurance here also depends on your driving record.
I'm not saying it isn't cheaper in the US since for all I know, it is. I just want to be sure you're comparing apples to apples if you move south and don't run into a nasty surprise.
(I've always heard that Ontario's insurance is insanely high but I don't know from personal experience.)
In my case, the insurance is definitely apples to apples. Your points do bear mentioning, though, for others doing their own research. Ontario is very high in my experience. Our best insurance in the past has been Alberta, followed by BC. Both my husband and I have maintained spotless driving records in all 3 provinces, so driving record hasn't been a factor. Arguably, experience has been a factor since in BC my husband was considered new to Canada, while by the time we were in AB he was considered more experienced. Ontario is present, so despite him having greater experience than when we were in AB or BC, our insurance is still substantially higher.
I have zero interest in living in Boston, NYC, LA, or SF, so I don't have that information. I agree that on paper the cities you mention are more technically similar to Toronto, but for purely practical purposes, Phoenix and Orlando are appropriate comparisons in that they offer the same (actually, greater) ability to generate income in my field as the GTA, while being much cheaper to live. Obviously there is no use comparing the GTA to more rural areas of the US, where the income potential isn't comparable, but since that's not the case with Phoenix or Orlando in my situation, I felt the points were relevant. Either city offers the ability to have comparable (arguably better) quality of life in terms of recreation and entertainment from my PERSONAL perspective, as well. For someone that really requires a more cosmopolitan city, the comparison I made may not be as suitable. Some people really like cities like NY and LA.
I'm glad you mentioned in your personal experience.. Reason being, neither Phoenix nor Orlando are particularly urban amenity rich, vibrant or cosmopolitan cities.. Not saying they don't offer a good QOL but that is highly variable... Cities like Boston, S.F, Chicago (NYC is on another level imo but you pay for it!) etc are more on an even keel with Toronto in terms of overall things to do, urbanity and vibrancy so its a question of what you like about a city.. Nothing against Pheonix or Orlando but I'd probably jump off a cliff with my partner if we had to live in those cities - for us they are no more than weekend visit cities on the way to more appealing regional attractions such as the Grand Canyon, Sedona in Arizona or FLL/MIA in Florida.
In terms of my field I've actually done some comparisons and for my position with credentials i'd get paid less in the U.S due to the way things are structured down there. So essentially there is no one size fits all solution.. For you, if Pheonix and Orlando are your best fit in terms of income generating potential and QOL by all means go for it - better to do that than equivocate on an online forum
In my case, the insurance is definitely apples to apples. Your points do bear mentioning, though, for others doing their own research. Ontario is very high in my experience. Our best insurance in the past has been Alberta, followed by BC. Both my husband and I have maintained spotless driving records in all 3 provinces, so driving record hasn't been a factor. Arguably, experience has been a factor since in BC my husband was considered new to Canada, while by the time we were in AB he was considered more experienced. Ontario is present, so despite him having greater experience than when we were in AB or BC, our insurance is still substantially higher.
Ontario gets ripped off the most for auto insurance.. If there is one thing that should be totally overhauled in this province its that.. I can find all kinds of ways to lower expenses here - shop at No frills or Food Basics, buy in bulk, buy clothing at outlet malls such as Dixie Value, rent instead of own, buy cheap Chilean, Canadian or Italian wines etc but with insurance even with high deductible, having winter tires, driving low km's back and forth to work, security system in the car, underground parking, etc I still struggle to get less than 1500 per year.. This is someone who has been driving for 20 years and has a 6 star top driving record.
Ontario gets ripped off the most for auto insurance.. If there is one thing that should be totally overhauled in this province its that.. I can find all kinds of ways to lower expenses here - shop at No frills or Food Basics, buy in bulk, buy clothing at outlet malls such as Dixie Value, rent instead of own, buy cheap Chilean, Canadian or Italian wines etc but with insurance even with high deductible, having winter tires, driving low km's back and forth to work, security system in the car, underground parking, etc I still struggle to get less than 1500 per year.. This is someone who has been driving for 20 years and has a 6 star top driving record.
People come to Boston. $300 per month insurance not uncommon, with spotless driving record. $1500 is a huge bargain already. Not sure what you guys are complaining about.
neither Phoenix nor Orlando are particularly urban amenity rich, vibrant or cosmopolitan cities.. Not saying they don't offer a good QOL but that is highly variable
Phoenix and Orland can't compare with Toronto because they are not real cities. Of course one is entitled to say "I am happier living in Phoenix than Toronto", but that doesn't make the comparison to start to make any sense.
QOL is of course subjective, but I didn't travel thousands of miles to live in a place like Phoenix. I have been to Mississauga and Vaughan, Jesus, aren't they boring like hell? All the wide roads for cars to speed on, with nothing on either side. Why the hell do they need all those 6 lane streets in the middle of 1-2 story buildings? The residential neighbourhoods are lined with new houses with zero character which look exactly like each other, and they all have their giant garage doors, sometimes double garage doors facing the street, which takes 2/3 the width of the houses. Are these for humans to live in, or for cars to be parked? And everyone shops on the strip malls, of course, with the closest shop or restaurants 5 km away. Of course nobody walks, except to and from the car. I heard in Orlando if you walk on the streets people will stop their car asking if anything happened to you. If this is called high quality of life, I'd rather not have it, no matter how much money I made and how huge the house is. I simply can't tolerate this kind of "city".
I do hope the US and Canada will eventually charge the same gas tax as Norway so that everyone pays the real cost of gasoline. Wonder if they will still be obsessed with McMansion life.
People come to Boston. $300 per month insurance not uncommon, with spotless driving record. $1500 is a huge bargain already. Not sure what you guys are complaining about.
Really? That is insane. I pay $1150.00 a year for my car and $300.00 a year for my bike, both with Geico. People paying that with a spotless record need to shop around.
People come to Boston. $300 per month insurance not uncommon, with spotless driving record. $1500 is a huge bargain already. Not sure what you guys are complaining about.
lol ok i'm confused, i'm endlessly accused of being Mr Toronto is amazing Mr Ontario is the bomb and yet as soon as I criticize now i'm being too harsh
Anyway 1500 per year isn't killing me here but for someone with my experience and record I just find 1500 a bit much.. I think insurance companies in Ontario are blood sucking leeches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli
Phoenix and Orland can't compare with Toronto because they are not real cities. Of course one is entitled to say "I am happier living in Phoenix than Toronto", but that doesn't make the comparison to start to make any sense.
QOL is of course subjective, but I didn't travel thousands of miles to live in a place like Phoenix. I have been to Mississauga and Vaughan, Jesus, aren't they boring like hell? All the wide roads for cars to speed on, with nothing on either side. Why the hell do they need all those 6 lane streets in the middle of 1-2 story buildings? The residential neighbourhoods are lined with new houses with zero character which look exactly like each other, and they all have their giant garage doors, sometimes double garage doors facing the street, which takes 2/3 the width of the houses. Are these for humans to live in, or for cars to be parked? And everyone shops on the strip malls, of course, with the closest shop or restaurants 5 km away. Of course nobody walks, except to and from the car. I heard in Orlando if you walk on the streets people will stop their car asking if anything happened to you. If this is called high quality of life, I'd rather not have it, no matter how much money I made and how huge the house is. I simply can't tolerate this kind of "city".
I do hope the US and Canada will eventually charge the same gas tax as Norway so that everyone pays the real cost of gasoline. Wonder if they will still be obsessed with McMansion life.
Well Botti - I think you're being a bit harsh on Phoenix and Orlando calling them not real cities lol. I agree with your post but you do have to take into account that there are people - families who do want those big houses with garages/yards and drive everywhere they go - Costco, Walmart, Lowlaws Superstores, Rona etc. If you think its bad in the GTA American cities shame ours in terms of suburbia so it could be worse.
With that said, yes give me Toronto and more specifically Old Toronto over Phoenix/Orlando any and every day... The only thing better about these places is the weather in winter - which of course is a factor but not if you end up killing yourself from boredom
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