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Old 09-09-2015, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,436,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Hey, thanks for posting that! Very interesting.

Even though I am going to play the devil's advocate, keep in mind I am largely in agreement that (English) Canada is arguably the world's most successful diverse society at the moment.

But just start with the question and answer from his conversation with the taxi driver:

Taxi driver: "The Turks … they come here but they don’t act Austrian. They come, and more and more they stay here, but they still don’t ever become like us. ... Is it the same in Canada?"

Journalist: "No."

I mean, sure many immigrants do identify as "Canadian", but what does that really mean? Does it really imply much more than adherence to a citzenship brand name?

It is quite true that most immigrants to Canada have a very positive view of Canada, and feel "Canadian", but it's also true that the bar to be "Canadian" for immigrants is extremely low. Lower than most any other country.

I can hear Mr. Hussain and some of you already getting ready to say: "Aha! Therein lies the genius of the Canadian model!".

Which may be true to a point.

But if the key to harmonious relations between immigrants and a host population is simply to let immigrants do whatever the hell they want, and for the host society to (often) adapt, then why doesn't everyone around the world simply do like Canada does?
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,716 posts, read 8,800,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Hey, thanks for posting that! Very interesting.

Even though I am going to play the devil's advocate, keep in mind I am largely in agreement that (English) Canada is arguably the world's most successful diverse society at the moment.

But just start with the question and answer from his conversation with the taxi driver:

Taxi driver: "The Turks … they come here but they don’t act Austrian. They come, and more and more they stay here, but they still don’t ever become like us. ... Is it the same in Canada?"

Journalist: "No."

I mean, sure many immigrants do identify as "Canadian", but what does that really mean? Does it really imply much more than adherence to a citzenship brand name?

It is quite true that most immigrants to Canada have a very positive view of Canada, and feel "Canadian", but it's also true that the bar to be "Canadian" for immigrants is extremely low. Lower than most any other country.

I can hear Mr. Hussain and some of you already getting ready to say: "Aha! Therein lies the genius of the Canadian model!".

Which may be true to a point.

But if the key to harmonious relations between immigrants and a host population is simply to let immigrants do whatever the hell they want, and for the host society to (often) adapt, then why doesn't everyone around the world simply do like Canada does?
They don't end doing " just what they want " though ( in the negative sense ). They end up participating more in Canadian society than other immigrants, according to the article and from my experience as well.
Also the article states that even 3rd generation immigrants in some European countries still feel some sort of stigma, which I don't believe exists to that extent in Canada.

I wouldn't say the bar is too low, I'd say we've decided as a country what the important things are to being an immigrant in Canada are.

Why don't other countries do what Canada does? I don't think they can, at least right now. Canada has room to grow, so that may play a part, but it may also be our immigration policies, and the lack of having millions of refugees crossing our borders to overwhelm us.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,436,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I wouldn't say the bar is too low, I'd say we've decided as a country what the important things are to being an immigrant in Canada are.

.
I didn't say "too low", just "very low". Which it is.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,436,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Actually there is more pressure for a twentysomething year old male in the GTA to pay attention to Hockey than the Superbowl... I'd say even more 'pressure' for the MLB and NBA because Toronto has these teams.. .
I am an sports boards from time to time and there is a pretty strong "hockey sucks!" crowd on there that claims the "New Toronto" (whatever that means) has moved past hockey and will become a basketball/soccer town in the near future. Hockey is just so passé. I am not even sure if this mindset is related to the woes of the Leafs, and it seems more to be about hockey being an "old-fashioned" sport and basketball and soccer being seen as more contemporary and cosmopolitan.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I didn't say "too low", just "very low". Which it is.
A bit of semantics here.

Saying " low " suggests that other countries have a " higher " bar, which to many translates into meaning higher standards.

They have different expectations, than we do, certainly.

If there is any hierarchy to be noted ,it should be on results.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,436,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
A bit of semantics here.

Saying " low " suggests that other countries have a " higher " bar, which to many translates into meaning higher standards.

They have different expectations, than we do, certainly.

If there is any hierarchy to be noted ,it should be on results.
"more demanding (of immigrants)" and "less demanding (of immigrants)" then.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:22 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,300,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
"more demanding (of immigrants)" and "less demanding (of immigrants)" then.
I have explained many times it is a matter of not having anything to be assimilated to.

English Canada doesn't really have a strong and unique culture or lifestyle that we immigrants can adapt to, in terms of food, music, pop culture etc. When I was disappointed to find out there is hardly any Canadian TV to speak of, I knew there is not much for me to lean toward.

Even if we had a high bar, what would the bar be?

Canada has the same labour day, Christmas, and essentially the same tradition for thanksgiving as the US. Canada hardly do or eat anything special on Victoria Day or Family Day (for some provinces), or Canada Day, that makes me feel "hey, this is so Canadian!"
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,436,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I have explained many times it is a matter of not having anything to be assimilated to.

English Canada doesn't really have a strong and unique culture or lifestyle that we immigrants can adapt to, in terms of food, music, pop culture etc. When I was disappointed to find out there is hardly any Canadian TV to speak of, I knew there is not much for me to lean toward.

Even if we had a high bar, what would the bar be?

Canada has the same labour day, Christmas, and essentially the same tradition for thanksgiving as the US. Canada hardly do or eat anything special on Victoria Day or Family Day (for some provinces), or Canada Day, that makes me feel "hey, this is so Canadian!"
I'll let others answer but I think you know what my view is on this...
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,716 posts, read 8,800,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I have explained many times it is a matter of not having anything to be assimilated to.

English Canada doesn't really have a strong and unique culture or lifestyle that we immigrants can adapt to, in terms of food, music, pop culture etc. When I was disappointed to find out there is hardly any Canadian TV to speak of, I knew there is not much for me to lean toward.

Even if we had a high bar, what would the bar be?

Canada has the same labour day, Christmas, and essentially the same tradition for thanksgiving as the US. Canada hardly do or eat anything special on Victoria Day or Family Day (for some provinces), or Canada Day, that makes me feel "hey, this is so Canadian!"
Funny, that's now how my friends who immigrated here from various parts of the world feel, even my US friends.

I think the highlighted statement is more a reflection of you.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:47 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,020,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I have explained many times it is a matter of not having anything to be assimilated to.

English Canada doesn't really have a strong and unique culture or lifestyle that we immigrants can adapt to, in terms of food, music, pop culture etc. When I was disappointed to find out there is hardly any Canadian TV to speak of, I knew there is not much for me to lean toward.

Even if we had a high bar, what would the bar be?

Canada has the same labour day, Christmas, and essentially the same tradition for thanksgiving as the US. Canada hardly do or eat anything special on Victoria Day or Family Day (for some provinces), or Canada Day, that makes me feel "hey, this is so Canadian!"
While I agree to a certain extent and had some of the same observations when I landed in Canada myself, I do think "something" happens to immigrants than changes them once they end up in Canada. So in my view there is some type of Canadian culture at play that detaches you from your original home culture, unless you make a hell of an effort to hold onto it.

When I immigrated to Toronto I noticed a huge difference between the folks from my home country who had been in the area for at least a few years vs the ones who just arrived (FOB) like myself. The way you speak changes, the dialect changes, the food changes, the music you listen to changes, what you watch on TV changes, your outlook changes, the sports you watch changes and of course the same happened to me.

So while it may be difficult for all of us to define, there is some type of Canadian culture that influences people in a real way.
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