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Old 09-11-2015, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,670 posts, read 8,740,385 times
Reputation: 7281

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Listening to the media is not an accurate way to find public opinion. For some weird reason, all the media hates the right wing parties and everyone takes pride in being "liberal".

I am not a big fan of Harper, nor do I think other candidates are better. I might still vote conservative because 1) they are more business friendly (not that I have a business) and don't always use large companies to vent some sort of anger 2) they tend to provide a low tax environment.

What I hate about some parties/candidates is that they
1) always criticize big companies as if they are the source of all the evil. Spend on this and that, where the money come from, tax the big companies, since they seem to be rich! Sorry, if you are poor, it is your own fault, don't blame the CEOs.

2) have too many "programs". The seniors/retirees are poor - let's give them more money! The single parents are struggling, - let's give them more money! Raising kids is expensive, - let's give them more money! Voting buying is gross and candidates should be forbidden to do that. But they don't care because it is not their own money.

3) they encourage bigger governments/public sector. Why don't we have enough money to build this and that? The public sector costs too much.

4) I oppose anyone who supports to unions. It is disgusting to see for example Ontario teachers strike for "MORE" when they already enjoy generous wage, benefit and vacations.

And I am tired of people who say "we don't like how things are, so let's change the government and see how it goes". The fact Stephen Harper didn't do a great job doesn't mean the other two parties become a reasonable choice - they could be worse and one has to see what they propose and whether it is reasonable/realistic to decide whether they are indeed a good alternative. Changing for the sake of change just because you don't like status quo is retarded.
You're talking as if the other parties are new kids on the block. People have a pretty good idea of who and what they stand for, some like the Liberals have been in power before, and the NDP is the current opposition. So assuming that people are making choices in the dark is simply wrong.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,576 posts, read 11,065,012 times
Reputation: 10280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
You're talking as if the other parties are new kids on the block. People have a pretty good idea of who and what they stand for, some like the Liberals have been in power before, and the NDP is the current opposition. So assuming that people are making choices in the dark is simply wrong.
It's working great for Alberta so far...
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,698 posts, read 8,485,551 times
Reputation: 4877
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
It's working great for Alberta so far...
Alberta was doing poorly before the election, because oil cratered. The NDP has not yet made any serious moves in Alberta, to my understanding.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,576 posts, read 11,065,012 times
Reputation: 10280
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Alberta was doing poorly before the election, because oil cratered. The NDP has not yet made any serious moves in Alberta, to my understanding.
Only PR ones, but it very much looks like the NDP will be one and done.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:58 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,385 times
Reputation: 618
I am the rare bird who likes both Mulcair and Harper, but does not care for Trudeau. I'm also an American who has dual citizenship with Canada but lives in NYC. With those as caveats, I'd be happy to make the case for Harper.

(1) Harper has reduced Canadian taxes to below tax levels in the USA.
I don't know of any PM who has ever before been successful at this. It's been so successful that there is now a tax inversion strategy in the U.S. to merge into a Canadian company and make the Canadian location the combined HQ. Burger King recently did this with Tim Hortons, and the combined company is headquartered in Canada for tax reasons.

Apart from the corporate world, this also helps defend against the "brain drain" of high-earning professionals heading to the U.S. If Harper's policies are allowed to stand, the trend may even reverse itself and Canada may have to build a giant wall to keep the Americans from sneaking over the border.

Trudeau would reverse these trends back to where more Canadian businesses and professionals would aspire to living in the U.S.

(2) Harper has zeroed out the deficit.
The Canadian media seems to want everyone to believe this isn't a big deal, but it is. The U.S. deficit is enormous, and the fact that Canada doesn't have one even in these uncertain economic times means fiscal management under Harper has been exemplary.

And... that's really been it. He's been a tremendous tax tsar and fiscal manager of the country. I feel that Mulcair would be also, if Harper is to be replaced. But watch out with Trudeau... he may get Canadian economics into a lot of trouble very quickly.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:09 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,253,275 times
Reputation: 7578
^ In Canada many people equate lower corporate tax to "selling your soul to the big corporations and CEOs". Apparently not many people have basic education in economics (yet are allowed to vote).

Our Ontario liberal government on the other hand, never hesitate to waste billions of dollars to subsidize the dying automobile industry (as if that's the future) and the so-called "green energy" which is too expensive to survive without tax payer's money - yet clueless voters applaud such behavior because they maintain/create short-term "jobs" that shouldn't exist in the first place.

And since a long time ago, I stop reading any Canadian news about Harper government, because it is almost always one-sided. The media is known to be extremely biased against the right wing, just keep in mind that that doesn't really represent the general population.
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Old 09-17-2015, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,670 posts, read 8,740,385 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
I am the rare bird who likes both Mulcair and Harper, but does not care for Trudeau. I'm also an American who has dual citizenship with Canada but lives in NYC. With those as caveats, I'd be happy to make the case for Harper.

(1) Harper has reduced Canadian taxes to below tax levels in the USA.
I don't know of any PM who has ever before been successful at this. It's been so successful that there is now a tax inversion strategy in the U.S. to merge into a Canadian company and make the Canadian location the combined HQ. Burger King recently did this with Tim Hortons, and the combined company is headquartered in Canada for tax reasons.

Apart from the corporate world, this also helps defend against the "brain drain" of high-earning professionals heading to the U.S. If Harper's policies are allowed to stand, the trend may even reverse itself and Canada may have to build a giant wall to keep the Americans from sneaking over the border.

Trudeau would reverse these trends back to where more Canadian businesses and professionals would aspire to living in the U.S.

(2) Harper has zeroed out the deficit.
The Canadian media seems to want everyone to believe this isn't a big deal, but it is. The U.S. deficit is enormous, and the fact that Canada doesn't have one even in these uncertain economic times means fiscal management under Harper has been exemplary.

And... that's really been it. He's been a tremendous tax tsar and fiscal manager of the country. I feel that Mulcair would be also, if Harper is to be replaced. But watch out with Trudeau... he may get Canadian economics into a lot of trouble very quickly.
You are a rare bird. I don't think I've heard of anyone that likes Harper AND Mulcair.

I am not a fan of Harper. The piece written in the NYT's sums him up nicely. David Frum's rebuttal was quite misinformed, and the 3rd link is a rebuttal of Frum's rebuttal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/op...mind.html?_r=0

What Stephen Marche Gets Wrong About Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper - The Atlantic

Why David Frum Is Wrong About Stephen Harper and Canada's Conservative Party - The Atlantic
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Old 09-18-2015, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Vancouver BC
58 posts, read 117,229 times
Reputation: 123
If Harper wins again, kiss Canada good bye.
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Old 09-20-2015, 03:40 PM
 
449 posts, read 279,054 times
Reputation: 754
My apologies for changing the subject, but it looks like most NDP supporters would vote Liberal as a second choice and vice versa. This kinda bothers me because I feel like it's the equivalent of if America had two democratic nominees and one republican one, dividing the democrats and resulting in a win for the republicans, if that makes sense. So I was wondering, why don't you have a voting system where you write down your favorite AND second favorite nominee? That seems more fair to me. Of course, I'm afraid I'm a little biased because I disagree with Harper; it sounds like he wants Canada to be more like America, which I don't think is right.
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,670 posts, read 8,740,385 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
My apologies for changing the subject, but it looks like most NDP supporters would vote Liberal as a second choice and vice versa. This kinda bothers me because I feel like it's the equivalent of if America had two democratic nominees and one republican one, dividing the democrats and resulting in a win for the republicans, if that makes sense. So I was wondering, why don't you have a voting system where you write down your favorite AND second favorite nominee? That seems more fair to me. Of course, I'm afraid I'm a little biased because I disagree with Harper; it sounds like he wants Canada to be more like America, which I don't think is right.
Split voting is a concern for some people. There is movement right now called ABC ( Anything but Conservative)
which encourages people to vote for whichever candidate in their riding is most likely to beat the Conservative candidate. Strategic voting in other words.

As for the " fist past the post " system that we have, there has been talk about how changes, like the one you have mentioned, might get us a government that better represents the people, since the 25 to 30 percent support that the current government has, doesn't represent the majority at all. That has people talking reform.
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