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Old 09-20-2015, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
So is explaining the meaning of "free" to the uneducated.

You pay for basic heath care out of you taxes,which add up to several thousand dollars a year per Canadian. It isn't free by any stretch of the imagination unless you are a dependent child or welfare bum.

As for claiming that health care is only enjoyed by the lucky few south of the border... All I can say is that I had to make an emergency visit to a hospital in Palm Bay, FL after I severed the tendon in my right index finger. Contrary to the propaganda being posted here, it was a completely different experience than a Canadian hospital. Bright and clean with no wait times, and I wasn't asked for insurance until after I was treated.

...and Canadians think Americans are ignorant.
Is it possible that it was simply a new hospital (bright and clean) and perhaps not a busy day or time of day hence the 'no' wait time? As for not being asked for insurance until after you were treated, in a Canadian hospital is it a big deal to present a health card when you are going in to get care? I don't really think so.. I carry my health card everywhere I go. If i'm in the U.S - I carry my Sunlife travellers insurance information in case I need care there.

As for long wait times in Canada - I think there are probably experiences by many with thumbs up and thumbs down when it comes to these matters, with that said though, given the level of care my family has received in Canada, I personally wouldn't want to see my taxes go up further for quicker H.C service..
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Old 09-20-2015, 01:23 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,713,305 times
Reputation: 9029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yes, I know that. In about five years I will have a kid applying to Quebec universities and so I know what the tuition situation is in this province.

Still, they may not be from the historical élite but they are still part of a certain academic achiever élite in order to be there as the programs have limited space (contingentés).

It nonetheless puts them in a certain frame of mind almost by default, which in Quebec more than in the rest of North America tends to have more of a cultural dimension, regardless of whether or not your field of study is related to culture (humanities, social sciences) at all.

Quebec's élite people (both established and aspirational) can be more ''élite'' and even élitist than their peers elsewhere on this continent. But they're not generally nasty because Quebec is an egalitarian, peaceful society.
I have heard a couple other times that Quebecois look at Americans more positively than Anglo Canadians but who knows, its probably just all stereotypes... i've even heard that people from Quebec would rather vacation in the USA than in the rest of Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
So is explaining the meaning of "free" to the uneducated.

You pay for basic heath care out of you taxes,which add up to several thousand dollars a year per Canadian. It isn't free by any stretch of the imagination unless you are a dependent child or welfare bum.

As for claiming that health care is only enjoyed by the lucky few south of the border... All I can say is that I had to make an emergency visit to a hospital in Palm Bay, FL after I severed the tendon in my right index finger. Contrary to the propaganda being posted here, it was a completely different experience than a Canadian hospital. Bright and clean with no wait times, and I wasn't asked for insurance until after I was treated.

...and Canadians think Americans are ignorant.
What are you saying? do Canadian hospitals really look that different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Is it possible that it was simply a new hospital (bright and clean) and perhaps not a busy day or time of day hence the 'no' wait time? As for not being asked for insurance until after you were treated, in a Canadian hospital is it a big deal to present a health card when you are going in to get care? I don't really think so.. I carry my health card everywhere I go. If i'm in the U.S - I carry my Sunlife travellers insurance information in case I need care there.

As for long wait times in Canada - I think there are probably experiences by many with thumbs up and thumbs down when it comes to these matters, with that said though, given the level of care my family has received in Canada, I personally wouldn't want to see my taxes go up further for quicker H.C service..
Why? how long do you have to wait if you wanted to make an appointment like right now for something?
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,343,960 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvanung View Post



Yet the description you made right above my post was more aligned with socioeconomic status than any real academic achievement status... now you're saying that people with a certain level of academic achievement that is sufficient to think one is in condition to finish an undergrad are put into a particular frame of mind that will attune them more to European cultures almost by default, regardless of socioeconomic status?
.
I thought it was pretty clear. Established élite people in Quebec tend to have Europhilic leanings. And people who aspire to be part of that élite (via high educational achievement) who don't have that family history, also tend to mimic the established élite, and are therefore Europhilic too.
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,343,960 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvanung View Post
However, would resentment towards the US in anglophone Canada be field-dependent, class-dependent or location-dependent?

.
I'd say that views on the US in Anglo-Canada aren't as varied across segments of society as they are in Quebec.

There isn't really any demographic in Anglo-Canada that idealizes the US like the blue collar demographic can sometimes do so in Quebec. (Even though that Québécois blue collar population is quite Québécois in its culture. They aren't francophone clones of Americans by any stretch. The US is still fairly ''foreign'' to them, but it's an alluring, admired foreign place.)
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:33 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,619 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
So is explaining the meaning of "free" to the uneducated.

You pay for basic heath care out of you taxes,which add up to several thousand dollars a year per Canadian. It isn't free by any stretch of the imagination unless you are a dependent child or welfare bum.

As for claiming that health care is only enjoyed by the lucky few south of the border... All I can say is that I had to make an emergency visit to a hospital in Palm Bay, FL after I severed the tendon in my right index finger. Contrary to the propaganda being posted here, it was a completely different experience than a Canadian hospital. Bright and clean with no wait times, and I wasn't asked for insurance until after I was treated.

...and Canadians think Americans are ignorant.
I think it's fair to say that you aren't comprehending basic aspects of the "argument" you are having. Speaking of ignorant, you do realize that everyone having this conversation with you understands that Canadians pay for health care through taxes, right? Yes? No? If not, then that's on you and your poor reading comprehension.

Ignorance. You seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that Americans pay MORE TAXES than Canadians do, and yet do not receive any health care plan in return. If they are a low earner, perhaps they will receive a bit of a subsidy but still have to buy the actual plan themselves through a marketplace. This, again, after paying much more in taxes for health care than Canadians. The Bostonian in this conversation likes to point out that Americans receive this small subsidy in return for thousands upon thousands of HC dollars in taxes, but the fact remain, as you just proved my point, Canadians receive a "free" health care plan, 100% paid, for your relatively small sum of taxes.

If it helps your ignorant "free health care" semantic argument, we can call it socialized health care rather than free. Does that help you comprehend what we're saying? You get it no matter how much you pay in taxes. It may actually even be semantically "free" (even by your layperson understanding of the word here) if the person does not make an income.

And 99% of the time in American hospitals, they will ask for your insurance card first. Even if they don't, that doesn't mean that you could walk out if you don't have insurance. It means that they would have billed you for thousands of dollars if you didn't have it, and you could go bankrupt down here after just one or two visits.

Here's a question: how many Canadians do you personally know who have gone bankrupt after several visits for a medical condition? And if it's not "free," how many low-income Canadians do you know who don't have any health care plan?
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:49 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,619 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
given the level of care my family has received in Canada, I personally wouldn't want to see my taxes go up further for quicker H.C service..
But you don't want to pay thousands more in taxes per year for a "bright" shiny new hospital like the one in Palm Bay? He's also completely ignorant of the fact that most Americans don't live in Florida and do live in places where the hospitals are just as old as the ones in Canada. Try going to the hospitals in New York City, bub. Then tell us how bright and shiny they are, and how "quick" your service is, and how "they don't even ask for insurance."

The place seemed bright and shiny because Florida itself is bright and shiny (and humid). I'm sure his visit to the ATM and McDonalds would have seemed "bright and shiny" and "quick" compared to his home in Canada as well.

"They didn't even ask for my credit card until after I ordered the sausage McMuffin!"
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:53 AM
 
37 posts, read 46,016 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
But you don't want to pay thousands more in taxes per year for a "bright" shiny new hospital like the one in Palm Bay? He's also completely ignorant of the fact that most Americans don't live in Florida and do live in places where the hospitals are just as old as the ones in Canada. Try going to the hospitals in New York City, bub. Then tell us how bright and shiny they are, and how "quick" your service is, and how "they don't even ask for insurance."

The place seemed bright and shiny because Florida itself is bright and shiny (and humid). I'm sure his visit to the ATM and McDonalds would have seemed "bright and shiny" and "quick" compared to his home in Canada as well.

"They didn't even ask for my credit card until after I ordered the sausage McMuffin!"
Hold on there pal. I'm a New Yorker myself and all of the hospitals that I've been to in the city (Maimonides, NYC Medical Center, Brooklyn VA Hospital, Beth Israel, Lenox Hill, Bellevue, Mount Sinai) have all been nice, bright, very clean, well organized and no issues. I'm not sure which hospitals you are going to in NYC, but my experiences have been wonderful.

You seem to have a lot of contempt for the USA throughout this thread and propagating negative attributes about the USA and Americans that are not really there or heavily exaggerated in comparison to Canadians.

I've never been to very corner of Canada but I would suspect they would have great hospitals and also not-so-great medical facilities at the same time depending on the location, just like there are in certain parts of the USA or any other western nation or country. I've heard tons of complaints from Brits on some of the facilities that they sometimes have to deal with. In any sense even if you don't have health insurance (most Americans do) in the USA doctors and nurse still have to treat you - so no one is scared to go to the hospital in the USA, at least in NYC. I'm surprised this is coming from another American that is living in the same city that I'm living in.
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Old 09-20-2015, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Montreal > Quebec > Canada
477 posts, read 426,525 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
I have heard a couple other times that Quebecois look at Americans more positively than Anglo Canadians but who knows, its probably just all stereotypes... i've even heard that people from Quebec would rather vacation in the USA than in the rest of Canada.
It's not really because of politics or looking at Americans more positively than Anglo Canadians. Honestly to most Québécois both English Canada and the USA feel like going to a foreign country - it certainly does not feel "at home" like going to Gaspé, Saguenay or Rivière-du-Loup does.

It has more to do with geography. Some popular US vacations spots for the Québécois are (with distances from Montreal):
  • Ogunquit / Old Orchard - 500km
  • Boston - 490km
  • Cape Cod - 600km
  • NYC - 600km
  • Washington DC - 940km
  • Virginia Beach - 1150km

Compare this to potential vacation spots in Anglo Canada (again with distances from Montreal)
  • Wasaga Beach - 650km
  • Toronto - 540km
  • Kouchibouguac National Park (NB) - 875km

Basically, at similar distances, we have a choice between ocean beaches vs Great Lakes beaches (which are very nice too, but they are at a comparative disadvantage here). Or NYC vs Toronto. I love Toronto and go quite frequently, but still, it is not surprising that more people would chose to go spend a long weekend in NYC.

Last edited by begratto; 09-20-2015 at 09:04 AM..
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,619 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM56 View Post
I've never been to very corner of Canada but I would suspect they would have great hospitals and also not-so-great medical facilities at the same time depending on the location, just like there are in certain parts of the USA or any other western nation or country. I've heard tons of complaints from Brits on some of the facilities that they sometimes have to deal with. In any sense even if you don't have health insurance (most Americans do) in the USA doctors and nurse still have to treat you - so no one is scared to go to the hospital in the USA, at least in NYC. I'm surprised this is coming from another American that is living in the same city that I'm living in.
This is exactly my point, that there are new hospitals and not-so-new hospitals in both countries. He his personal story reflected that American hospitals are new and shiny in the USA but not in Canada.

They still have to treat you, but that doesn't mean you don't still pay. They will always bill you. At some hospitals, if you are truly poor you can go through a mountain of paperwork and they will forgive a good portion of your debt. It is at their discretion, and there is no law in the vast majority of states that they must forgive anything.

So the fact remains that 2.4 million Americans go bankrupt from medical expenses each year, and that doesn't happen in Canada.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TM56 View Post
You seem to have a lot of contempt for the USA throughout this thread and propagating negative attributes about the USA and Americans that are not really there or heavily exaggerated in comparison to Canadians.
On the contrary, I've backed up everything with the actual facts and statistics. You just see what you want to see, and perhaps you'll believe what you want to believe.
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,343,960 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by begratto View Post
It's not really because of politics or looking at Americans more positively than Anglo Canadians. Honestly to most Québécois both English Canada and the USA feel like going to a foreign country - it certainly does not feel "at home" like going to Gaspé, Saguenay or Rivière-du-Loup does.

It has more to do with geography. Some popular US vacations spots for the Québécois are (with distances from Montreal):
  • Ogunquit / Old Orchard - 500km
  • Boston - 490km
  • Cape Cod - 600km
  • NYC - 600km
  • Washington DC - 940km
  • Virginia Beach - 1150km

Compare this to potential vacation spots in Anglo Canada (again with distances from Montreal)
  • Wasaga Beach - 650km
  • Toronto - 540km
  • Kouchibouguac National Park (NB) - 875km

Basically, at similar distances, we have a choice between ocean beaches vs Great Lakes beaches (which are very nice too, but they are at a comparative disadvantage here). Or NYC vs Toronto. I love Toronto and go quite frequently, but still, it is not surprising that more people would chose to go spend a long weekend in NYC.
It's a minority but I have also heard Quebecers say they prefer travelling to the States because they don't feel judged there like they do in Anglo-Canada. Because of the historical politics some feel like Anglo-Canadians have preconceived notions about them (separatist, racist, xenophobic, insular, etc.) whereas in the U.S., they're just anonymous faces in the mass of foreigners and no one cares about Quebec-Canada politics.
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