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Old 09-18-2015, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,690 posts, read 8,756,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docwatson View Post
While true, keep in mind the Canada's CPP and OAS combined are far less generous than U.S. social security, and Canadians are expected to save more for retirement.



But you need to consider that our Provinces are quite indebted, and some (like Ontario) also have very high future public sector pension liabilities. 37 states in the US have firm balanced budget requirements in contrast.



True (as in free after taxes and BC's premium). Keep in mind that our health systems don't cover everything (BC's doesn't cover most physiotherapy, mental health, or prescriptions), but these are not huge out-of-pocket expenses.

Regarding the military, its very true that at 1% of GDP we spend less than the OECD average and well less that the US which is 3.5% (plus debt service on past military spending). I have mixed feeling about this. Mostly positive, as I do not support most war, but also I realize that we can spend this little because we are allied with the U.S.

And, one positive you overlooked - in Canada new parents have access to one year maternity/parental leave partially paid by the government; the US still has 12 weeks unpaid. We'll see if the next U.S. President can accomplish this!
From I can gather it really depends in the US on what your wage was. For mid-income earners it looks like the benefit are pretty close, with Canada's combined OAS and CPP actually being higher in the 55K and 65K bracket. That is, taking those benefits as full benefits, which according to the link is 66 years in the US as opposed to 65 in Canada (67 slowly being reached for OAS ).

Of course the situations will differ personally in both countries depending on how long you have contributed.

Estimated Social Security Monthly Payments Chart - Vaughn's Summaries

Payment Amounts - Canada Pension Plan - Service Canada

Old Age Security payment amounts - Service Canada
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:47 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,751 times
Reputation: 618
So I did a tax rundown, with Internet paycheck calculators for both countries.

Imagine you are someone who is single and makes US$100,000 in self-employed income (say you are an author and sell books on Amazon). At recent exchange rates, you'd end up with around C$125,000 on average in Calgary. Let's also say you don't want to get caught up in the next housing downturn, and so you rent.

These calculations include state income tax deductions.

Canada income tax: C$23,412 (18.7%)
Alberta income tax: C$10,337 (8.3%)
Canadian Pension Plan: C$2,480 (2.0%) x2 = C$4,960 (4.0%)

TOTAL TAX IN CALGARY: C$38,709 / C$125,000 (31%).
No EI for the self-employed.


USA income tax: $20,427 (20.4%)
Colorado income tax: $4,524 (4.5%)
Social Security: $6,200 (6.2%) x2 = $12,400 (12.4%)
Medicare: $1,450 (1.5%)

TOTAL TAX IN DENVER: $38,801 / $100,000 (39%).


Even if someone bought a condo and added in a mortgage deduction, the take-home pay after taxes is much higher in Calgary. And besides the Canadian governments taking smaller chunks out of your paycheck, in this Internet scenario there is an added bonus: you are getting paid in expensive U.S. dollars... but buying things in cheap Canadian dollars.

Which means win + win for you.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,986 posts, read 3,321,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Canada does NOT have free health care. NOT. Nothing is free in Canada. Okay? Everybody in Canada pays for their health care through a variety of ways be it through the higher taxes, personal premiums, private direct payments, monthly deductions from paycheques, etc., etc.

Each province has its own health care system in place and they're all a little different from each other with regard to what health care premiums are and how they're paid or invoiced but everybody does still pay one way or another.
Exactly. If healthcare was free in Canada, supplemental health care insurance wouldn't be such a coveted benefit for full-time employment in Canadian workplaces.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:55 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
Exactly. If healthcare was free in Canada, supplemental health care insurance wouldn't be such a coveted benefit for full-time employment in Canadian workplaces.
Your "supplemental" insurance doesn't cost a fraction of what insurance costs in the U.S. And when people say "free," they mean it is covered by your comparatively lower rate of taxation. Whereas for our higher rates, we get nothing in return except a nice fleet of $1,000,000,000.00 stealth bombers we've never seen or touched.

The marginal cost of your doctor visits is $0, i.e. "free."
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,593 posts, read 11,079,658 times
Reputation: 10306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post


Even if someone bought a condo and added in a mortgage deduction, the take-home pay after taxes is much higher in Calgary. And besides the Canadian governments taking smaller chunks out of your paycheck, in this Internet scenario there is an added bonus: you are getting paid in expensive U.S. dollars... but buying things in cheap Canadian dollars.

Which means win + win for you.
No you're not. In the first line you gave them $125K Canadian v. $100K US in Denver.

What your fantasy doesn't note is that it's significantly more expensive to do anything in Calgary v. Denver, so your theoretical windfall doesn't really get you much.

Now in the real world where you work, you get paid $100K, whether it's in Canada or the US, there's an even greater disadvantage as your hampered by your currency of payment.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:32 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
No you're not. In the first line you gave them $125K Canadian v. $100K US in Denver.

What your fantasy doesn't note is that it's significantly more expensive to do anything in Calgary v. Denver, so your theoretical windfall doesn't really get you much.

Now in the real world where you work, you get paid $100K, whether it's in Canada or the US, there's an even greater disadvantage as your hampered by your currency of payment.
Not sure what you've misunderstood, but the income from Amazon here is $100,000 in U.S. currency, no matter which city the person lives in. That is converted to about C$125,000 when one takes the income in Canada. And actually I was underestimating it, as that is currently worth C$133,333.

My point from the part you question is that with the weak dollar, the cost of living is actually lower today in Calgary than in Denver. This is according to various metrics here and also here. Most things are now cheaper in Canada than in the U.S., USD for USD.

Moral of the story: the person would end up with much more in their paycheck in Canada, thanks to lower taxes in Canada. After that, they'd be able to buy more as well, even per dollar (of which they will start with far more) thanks to a favorable conversion rate.

Last edited by Blimp; 09-18-2015 at 01:59 PM.. Reason: More metrics. They all show things are cheaper in Calgary today.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:56 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,008,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Your "supplemental" insurance doesn't cost a fraction of what insurance costs in the U.S. And when people say "free," they mean it is covered by your comparatively lower rate of taxation. Whereas for our higher rates, we get nothing in return except a nice fleet of $1,000,000,000.00 stealth bombers we've never seen or touched.

The marginal cost of your doctor visits is $0, i.e. "free."
Now Blimp you know that is hyperbole to the tenth power.

FY14 HC related budget:

Medicare FY14: $511b
Medicaid FY14: $439b
Uncompensated Care FY14: $45.9b

FY 14-24 ACA Spending: $1.207 Trillion. Covering expansion of Medicaid, CHIP, Employer Tax credits and Martketplace subsidies.

Especially with the medicaid expansion, you must know that quite a few people benefit from Federal funds when referring to healthcare.

That is not even looking at the state level. You ever looked at one of those pie charts breaking down a state budget? Yeah they are almost completely filled with funds for healthcare and education.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:17 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Now Blimp you know that is hyperbole to the tenth power.

FY14 HC related budget:

Medicare FY14: $511b
Medicaid FY14: $439b
Uncompensated Care FY14: $45.9b

FY 14-24 ACA Spending: $1.207 Trillion. Covering expansion of Medicaid, CHIP, Employer Tax credits and Martketplace subsidies.

Especially with the medicaid expansion, you must know that quite a few people benefit from Federal funds when referring to healthcare.

That is not even looking at the state level. You ever looked at one of those pie charts breaking down a state budget? Yeah they are almost completely filled with funds for healthcare and education.
It's not hyperbole at all, it's simple economics. I suppose you could also say that instead of $1 billion stealth bombers, Americans get for their money handouts to pharmaceutical companies and a bunch of overpaid doctors who make $300,000 (C$400,000) in many specialties that they make C$100,000 for in Canada. This is also money we, the taxpayers, will never see or touch. Is that your point from the above?

Because even though American governments spend a lot on health care, we still have to buy our own insurance and it's not supplemental! We simply don't get any coverage from the government unless we are covered by Medicaid or Medicare. Not many of us are, whereas 100% of Canadians are. In both countries, supplemental insurance can help even after being covered.

So I'm wondering what your point is?

It seems like you are saying that Canadians pay extra for that $0 cost of visiting a doctor versus $75 here. That Canadians pay more tax for that $0/month health care premium versus $400/month here. But what I'm saying is that the taxes are lower, not higher, in Canada, and we Americans have nothing to show for our higher tax rates. In fact, we get the pleasure of purchasing health care premiums for many thousands of dollars per year that Canadians will never have to pay.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle-WA-USA
678 posts, read 663,745 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
No you're not. In the first line you gave them $125K Canadian v. $100K US in Denver.

What your fantasy doesn't note is that it's significantly more expensive to do anything in Calgary v. Denver, so your theoretical windfall doesn't really get you much.

Now in the real world where you work, you get paid $100K, whether it's in Canada or the US, there's an even greater disadvantage as your hampered by your currency of payment.
Yet Americans who make a lot of money still complain about getting taxed to death.

The complaining never ends. Am I right?
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:25 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,751 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedonwind View Post
Yet Americans who make a lot of money still complain about getting taxed to death.

The complaining never ends. Am I right?
Americans actually believe they are taxed less than the "socialist health care" Canadians are. Canadians often believe it too! Of course this is patently false (as shown in this thread). They do complain about taxation in general, yes, but so does everyone in every country. Including Canada.
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