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Old 09-18-2015, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle-WA-USA
678 posts, read 664,261 times
Reputation: 498

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Americans actually believe they are taxed less than the "socialist health care" Canadians are. Canadians often believe it too! Of course this is patently false (as shown in this thread). They do complain about taxation in general, yes, but so does everyone in every country. Including Canada.
Well exactly, both of the countries are expensive and will tax you, so this notion that moving to the USA like everyone and their mom + grandmother does will save you big bucks is not that true. It's kinda like stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:45 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,011,574 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
It's not hyperbole at all, it's simple economics. I suppose you could also say that instead of $1 billion stealth bombers, Americans get for their money handouts to pharmaceutical companies and a bunch of overpaid doctors who make $300,000 (C$400,000) in many specialties that they make C$100,000 for in Canada. This is also money we, the taxpayers, will never see or touch. Is that your point from the above?

Because even though American governments spend a lot on health care, we still have to buy our own insurance and it's not supplemental! We simply don't get any coverage from the government unless we are covered by Medicaid or Medicare. Not many of us are, whereas 100% of Canadians are. In both countries, supplemental insurance can help even after being covered.

So I'm wondering what your point is?

It seems like you are saying that Canadians pay extra for that $0 cost of visiting a doctor versus $75 here. That Canadians pay more tax for that $0/month health care premium versus $400/month here. But what I'm saying is that the taxes are lower, not higher, in Canada, and we Americans have nothing to show for our higher tax rates. In fact, we get the pleasure of purchasing health care premiums for many thousands of dollars per year that Canadians will never have to pay.
This is all I need to read to know where you are coming from. Its an easy mindless position to take. Evil Scientists, Evil Doctors, all overpaid. That line of thinking is so intellectually lazy. Do you even begin to understand the work that goes into drug discovery all the way through approval? The fact remains that the US subsidizes much of the R&D expenses and the entire world benefits as a result.

My point is simple. The US spends alot on healthcare, actually more than national defense. If you dont understand that you personally benefit from this even if you may not be currently enrolled in a government plan, then you have no idea where HC funds are funnelled.

Is there a certain level of waste? Of course, but thankfully the ACA has slowed HC spending inflation to 3.6-5.7% per year since 2013. That by the way is a huge tip of the hat to healthcare reform. It even exceeded expectations.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,694 posts, read 8,765,998 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
No you're not. In the first line you gave them $125K Canadian v. $100K US in Denver.

What your fantasy doesn't note is that it's significantly more expensive to do anything in Calgary v. Denver, so your theoretical windfall doesn't really get you much.

Now in the real world where you work, you get paid $100K, whether it's in Canada or the US, there's an even greater disadvantage as your hampered by your currency of payment.
I volunteer to be the sacrificial animal in this experiement. Pay me the money and I'll report back after two years.
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Old 09-18-2015, 03:04 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 677,100 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
This is all I need to read to know where you are coming from. Its an easy mindless position to take. Evil Scientists, Evil Doctors, all overpaid. That line of thinking is so intellectually lazy. Do you even begin to understand the work that goes into drug discovery all the way through approval? The fact remains that the US subsidizes much of the R&D expenses and the entire world benefits as a result.

My point is simple. The US spends alot on healthcare, actually more than national defense. If you dont understand that you personally benefit from this even if you may not be currently enrolled in a government plan, then you have no idea where HC funds are funnelled.

Is there a certain level of waste? Of course, but thankfully the ACA has slowed HC spending inflation to 3.6-5.7% per year since 2013. That by the way is a huge tip of the hat to healthcare reform. It even exceeded expectations.
You don't seem to actually disagree with what I said, you just want to paint it in a nice fluffy light. Let Americans pay higher taxes than Canada and not receive health care back, so that all the rest of the world can benefit instead!

Not the most tenable position to hold on the matter.
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Old 09-18-2015, 03:07 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,011,574 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
You don't seem to actually disagree with what I said, you just want to paint it in a nice fluffy light. Let Americans pay higher taxes than Canada and not receive health care back, so that all the rest of the world can benefit instead!

Not the most tenable position to hold on the matter.

Yeah man, that's exactly what I'm saying

What's the point? Have a nice weekend.
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Old 09-18-2015, 03:08 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 677,100 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Yeah man, that's exactly what I'm saying

What's the point? Have a nice weekend.
It's exactly what you said, minus the fluff, and moreover is the unfortunate reality of the situation. Have good one.
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Old 09-18-2015, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,694 posts, read 8,765,998 times
Reputation: 7313
Blimps and scissors (syzurr) not a good combination.
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 677,100 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Blimps and scissors (syzurr) not a good combination.
You a silly!
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:08 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 677,100 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Is there a certain level of waste? Of course, but thankfully the ACA has slowed HC spending inflation to 3.6-5.7% per year since 2013. That by the way is a huge tip of the hat to healthcare reform. It even exceeded expectations.
It's all pretty much waste, but it's a matter of perspective of course. You made an argument that it's fine for American taxpayers to subsidize research for the entire rest of the world instead of covering more U.S. citizens for health care. I don't think that is fine at all. But it works out great for Canadians! They benefit from the U.S. research, and they get covered. For "free" (i.e., a marginal cost, to them, of $0). Better than free, really, when you consider they pay a lower rate of tax and get benefits that are significantly greater in return.

Also, "only" 4% to 6% is absurd when you take a moment to realize that inflation is around 0% to 1%. This is a time when health care costs should be flat, not increasing at a 5% premium to CPI.

But yeah, agree to disagree.
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,986 posts, read 3,324,026 times
Reputation: 5622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Your "supplemental" insurance doesn't cost a fraction of what insurance costs in the U.S. And when people say "free," they mean it is covered by your comparatively lower rate of taxation.
A Hyundai Accent costs a fraction of what a Ferrari does. Are you seriously arguing that the Hyundai is "free" to those who want one?
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