U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-22-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
Reputation: 8601

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Chicago still has a more impressive and taller skyline, and a larger metro population than Toronto. While I see that Canadians will make a comparison between Toronto and New York because they are both the alpha cities of their nations, we have to bear in mind that Canada is still 1/9th the size of the U.S. and that its alpha city is going to be comparable to America's "second city" for the time being at least in the physical sense.

On the other hand, true "alpha" people of Canada are by and large going to move to Toronto far more often than anywhere else, whereas "alphas" of the U.S. move to New York or the west coast more often than they move to Chicago. So in that way, Toronto is more like Canada's NYC or LA. In state of mind, if not in physical environs, metro population, and appearance.
That depends. "Alpha" French Canadians basically all move to Montreal. And that's one quarter of the country's potential ''Alpha" people right there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-22-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
9,619 posts, read 6,601,212 times
Reputation: 12037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That depends. "Alpha" French Canadians basically all move to Montreal. And that's one quarter of the country's potential ''Alpha" people right there.
Exactly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2015, 02:47 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,462,348 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Chicago still has a more impressive and taller skyline, and a larger metro population than Toronto. While I see that Canadians will make a comparison between Toronto and New York because they are both the alpha cities of their nations, we have to bear in mind that Canada is still 1/9th the size of the U.S. and that its alpha city is going to be comparable to America's "second city" for the time being at least in the physical sense.

On the other hand, true "alpha" people of Canada are by and large going to move to Toronto far more often than anywhere else, whereas "alphas" of the U.S. move to New York or the west coast more often than they move to Chicago.

So in that way, Toronto is more like Canada's NYC or LA. In state of mind, if not in physical environs, metro population, and appearance.
To Many New Yorkers.....It is common to see Chicago as Flyover. For the West Coast, LA and SF.

Chicago TRUELY has its Share of Young Urban Professionals that have been increasing its Downtown population and Gentrified neighborhoods.

Chicago's Downtown continued to boom last decade and now this. Slowed after the Crash....
Chicago had largest downtown population growth from 2000 to 2010

Chicago’s downtown population grew from 133,426 to 181,714, an increase of 48,288 or 36.2%. Just in the Census 2-mile radius from City Hall Overall All Downtown has nearly 182,000 and growing. That beat NYC in the 2-miles from its City Hall. But of course it is NYC......

I WILL ADD IN CHICAGO'S 2- radius by the census... is its GRANT and Millennium Park Downtown too.

CHICAGO #8 people are moving too. Tampa was #1. LA and NYC not on the list.
Chicago - Top 10 cities people are moving to - CNNMoney

I also will add CHICAGO IS A ALPHA CITY TOO on the Top of the Alpha range. LA is lower and Toronto. But Alpha too. CHICAGO did rise to ALPHA+ For the 2010. Alpha list. But was bumped in the 2012. Chart by Beijing. As most in the Alpha+ are Asian cities with Paris.

2012 chart still i did not find a new updated Chart.
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2012t.

CHICAGO STILL DOES WELL IN FINANCIAL SECTORS.
The GAWC ranking of absolute financial
centers divided the industry into sub
sectors:
Financial Services, Top 5 Cities
1 New York
2 London
3 Chicago
4 San Francisco
5 Sydney

Banking, Top 5 Cities
1 New York
2 Chicago
3 Boston
4 Washington DC
5 London

Investment Banking, Top 5 Cities
1 New York
2 London
3 San Francisco
4 Chicago
5 Paris

Investment Management, Top 5 Cities
1 New York
2 London
3 San Francisco
4 Chicago
5 Boston

Capital Markets, Top 5 Cities
1 New York
2 London
3 Chicago
4 Mumbai
5 Toronto

Chicago #9 in the WORLD Global Economy. Above DC, Toronto and Boston. Just edges out by SF.
Climbing 3 places from last year passing Boston.
The 20 best cities for global finance GFCI index - Business Insider

Chicago MOST diversified Economy in the US. No more then 14% in one industry.
Economy

A.T. Kearney Global Cities 2015 Identifies 16 Elite Cities Based on Their Current... -- CHICAGO, May 20, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --

Global Cities Index, 2015:
01. New York
06. Los Angeles
07. Chicago
10. Washington, D.C.
13. Toronto
22. San Francisco
23. Boston
24. Montréal

Chicago DOES LACK THE INTERNATIONAL WEALTHY INVESTMENT OF NYC, LA AND SF AND MIAMI. Probably Toronto too. That is the reason for less new Buildings in numbers. But it continues renewal and rising in Tourist. To the degree.... CHICAGO GETS MORE DOMESTIC TOURIST/VISITORS then NYC.
But its SKYLINE STILL IMPRESSES. YES...

This 8-yr. old picture shows no slouch to other cities... yes NYC has more. Toronto... maybe close now?


YES I GET CARRIED AWAY.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2015, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Chicago still has a more impressive and taller skyline, and a larger metro population than Toronto. While I see that Canadians will make a comparison between Toronto and New York because they are both the alpha cities of their nations, we have to bear in mind that Canada is still 1/9th the size of the U.S. and that its alpha city is going to be comparable to America's "second city" for the time being at least in the physical sense.

On the other hand, true "alpha" people of Canada are by and large going to move to Toronto far more often than anywhere else, whereas "alphas" of the U.S. move to New York or the west coast more often than they move to Chicago. So in that way, Toronto is more like Canada's NYC or LA. In state of mind, if not in physical environs, metro population, and appearance.
I would agree with your comment re skyline but if Chicago doesn't start cranking up scraper production like Toronto has over the last decade - in another decade it is entirely possible for Toronto to have as tall and a more dense skyline. While Chicago has height advantage now it is losing ground quickly to Toronto in terms of overall density. NYC is simply much more dense than either Toronto or Chicago..

As for metro population it is tough to compare.. While Chicago is an almost 10 million CSA - Canada doesn't use CSA measures but if it did than the difference would be about 1.5-2.0 million for Chicago CSA over Toronto.. It is expected that if growth continues as it has over the last few decades for both these metro's than Toronto CSA equiv will exceed Chicago CSA in only 15-20 years max. In 2013 the city proper of Toronto blasted passed Chicago city proper population and take into account the area of both city proper's is the same so that tells you something in terms of the increasing density and population of Toronto.

This recent pic shows the density of Old Toronto including the DT core.

http://www.stockaerialphotos.com/-/g...cities/toronto
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2015, 06:20 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,462,348 times
Reputation: 1483
American cities are not big on Mid-Rises to Skyscraper living. Its mostly All High-End. With NYC, Chicago and Miami having the most. The demand is not there in Most US cities as Canadian ones. Vancouver and Toronto primarily in Canada.

But it is time to Pit Washington DC Metro vs. Toronto. DC is approaching Chicago's Metro Populations when Baltimore is included. But of course Mid-Rises to a few Skyscrapers are in Baltimore, which is only 40 miles from DC. Also vs. Houston. Houston it is getting closer to Chicago Proper population but still a good portion short in Metro like Toronto.

I still maintain. Chicago comparisons ARE OLD NEWS FOR TORONTONIANS.

I believe they CLEARLY SEE THEY SURPASSED CHICAGO IN MORE THEN POPULATION.... again it's CHICAGO YESTERDAY and NOW NYC TOMORROW. Of course a full match and surpass NYC won't come... But I don't see a interest in really to get compared to US cities for TORONTONIANS.

They see In City Proper.... It is already NYC then Toronto Then Chicago. Not sure how they see LA? But LA is still its own beast too.

But i certainly see warrant to do a bit of boasting for Chicago.... But it suffers from far less International investment. It ALWAYS HAD ITS OWN WEALTHY and INDUSTRY TO INVEST IN ITSELF. It slowly is getting more Chinese investment.
I wish it could steal more from NYC... LOL

Why not.... CHICAGO



Former Industrial area. Made into Lofts and more. Now fully integrated into Downtown CHICAGO.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Steeps - don't get so defensive there!

In my eyes Chicago is a fantastic city.. It beats any other Canadian city head and shoulders for architectural scraper clout - I mean its not even close there are so many wonderful heritage buildings in Chicago.. In my view this is one of the most impressive things about the city bar none!!.. It also has the one of the finest Art Museums in the world!!

With that said, yes Toronto is nipping at its heels in terms of getting to be its size in terms of skyline and in terms of metro size and as I mentioned already exceeding its city proper population.. That is all i'm really comparing here - otherwise each city has its own appeals and unique qualities.

Now please steeps - don't bring up D.C metro - its not comparable to the urban area size or density of Chicago or Toronto and I think you know that. Montreal owns D.C in terms of urban area density and feeling like a substantive and cohesive large city.. D.C may have a larger metro than Montreal but its certainly not as cohesive an urban area as Chicago, Toronto or Montreal which is why I wouldn't even mention it in that realm.. I wouldn't even put its urban area clout on the level of Philly or Boston but on the flipside its incredible iconic and has amazing museums - every city has its charms which is why comparisons are just that - no city can be duplicated or replicated and the world is a big place, there's room for them all!

Last edited by fusion2; 09-22-2015 at 06:54 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2015, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
First defense but TRUTHFUL is valid as you do too. To compare cities NEED NOT BE ON THE SAME DENSITY SCALE. DC proper is small but it still packs a lot. Despite the National Mall. If CSA's Metro's and Canada's comparable one is Compared....It is SURELY COMPARIBLE.

Heck Chicago DOES get compared to Houston. All know density is not close. Chicago and Philly on C-D too. WHY ARE YOU USING JUST DENSITY? There was Chicago and Miami.... the list goes on. There was Chicago vs. Vancouver

You would not speak in EVERY THREAD TORONTO IS MENTIONED. If it was NOT TO BE READY TO DEFEND..... So please I did not quote you in my post as it was JUST FOR YOU.

But your picture posted did have me WANT to do a Picture again. That is it. I DID NOT DENY YOUR POST. You posted TO DEFEND TORONTO... Despite always claiming your like for Chicago... i fully acknowledge it. I STILL DEFEND CHICAGO THE SAME. My earlier PICTURE of Chicago.... surely prompted you to Defend Toronto with a picture too.

Why single me out as if HOW DARE I? You said the same reply on why did I Defend Chicago! Before in threads about me. As long as i DO NOT DISS TORONTO OR YOU PERSONALLY OR POST A LIE. I merely do what we do on C-D in city vs. City threads.

No disrespect but .......
Its not just density but cohesion and D.C metro lacks urban area cohesion vs Toronto, Chicago, Montreal, Philly, Boston etc.. I already said each city has its charms and I said D.C is iconic and has incredible museums - its a great city to visit..

As for the pic I showed that was directed at Blimp to demonstrate how dense the skyline is becoming - it had zero to do with you and if you read back I wasn't the first to talk about the T.O skyline, didn't bring it up until another poster complimented how big its becoming and she is absolutely right!

If you read all my posts (you clearly don't) i'm complimentary of a lot of cities, including Chicago and yes also Toronto, what should I never write about it because I'm from here? Why not i'm most familiar with it and its a great city but its not my favourite in the world, i'd have to give that to 3 right now Mexico City, Istanbul and Bangkok and there are many others I prefer in terms of vibe than Toronto but often times I find Toronto gets hit with a lot of bashing so yes, i'll post freely to correct what I think are unfair or inaccurate representations about my home town. I think this is a good thing actually because people who are from a place and know it well probably have good info to share about it but some take that offensively for some reason and get their backs up - its strange..

One of our esteemed posters Acajack posts a lot about Quebec, Montreal and the culture to be found there, should he be maligned for speaking about a place he knows well? Of course not!

The rest of what you said is mostly personal and doesn't make much sense to me tbvh but take into account you are posting in a public forum which means your posts are open to being responded to by any member of the forum.. Btw, when anyone posts "No disrespect but" they are simply being disrespectful and i'm not exactly sure what I've written to garner that but i'll take it for what it is!

Last edited by fusion2; 09-22-2015 at 08:20 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2015, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
You Must be having a bad night. I say i did not respond to your post so My posting a picture first did not affect you posting one.... we are both just honest.

May next time we meet in C-D. We accept and expect... defense postings for our cities of choice. No malice on either of our parts. Apparently you feel you feel I maligned you for something? From the highlighted part? Otherwise i do not know why or for where, that comment was posted for? If not for me somehow.

But since you feel I PERSONALLY posted something to you rude or maligned somebody? Or Disrespected you? Apologies.

Before i am warned as personally attacking in C-D. I hope next time we meet in C-D. We accept and expect... defense postings for our cities of choice.... with respect to their comments if backed up and not lying. No malice on either of our parts for our post. Especially if we say NOTHING against each others city.... Have a Good Night. Time for my nightcap of a wine. Instead of a Whine....

PS. I deleted my post you felt was personal. Sorry

Having a bad night? I'm having a fantastic night! What makes you think i'm having a bad night based on a post in an online forum -

Enjoy your wine.. I'm having a great night btw - rarely am I not happy lol..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2015, 09:18 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
430 posts, read 676,385 times
Reputation: 618
Those posts above seem to demonstrate well the inferiority complex Chicago and Chicagoans have about their "Second City" historically being a "second" thought, and today it is actually more of a third or fourth thought behind "alpha dog" New York, and Los Angeles, and Silicon Valley, to the movers and shakers of the USA. Within Canada however, Toronto has more of a superiority complex than an inferiority complex, as I think it's probably easy for Torontonians to all but forget about Vancouver and Alberta sometimes in the same way that New Yorkers pay little mind to Chicago. So this adds to my point that Toronto is most similar to New York in mindset; but in skyline, in population, and in climate, I stand by my original comparison that Toronto is overall most similar to Chicago.

Toronto is all that Chicago would be in a mirror universe if New York and California did not exist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2015, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,698 posts, read 8,485,551 times
Reputation: 4877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Those posts above seem to demonstrate well the inferiority complex Chicago and Chicagoans have about their "Second City" historically being a "second" thought, and today it is actually more of a third or fourth thought behind "alpha dog" New York, and Los Angeles, and Silicon Valley, to the movers and shakers of the USA. Within Canada however, Toronto has more of a superiority complex than an inferiority complex, as I think it's probably easy for Torontonians to all but forget about Vancouver and Alberta sometimes in the same way that New Yorkers pay little mind to Chicago. So this adds to my point that Toronto is most similar to New York in mindset; but in skyline, in population, and in climate, I stand by my original comparison that Toronto is overall most similar to Chicago.

Toronto is all that Chicago would be in a mirror universe if New York and California did not exist.
Toronto still does have a bit of a different dynamic from New York, because New York has been top dog for centuries, whereas Toronto was never really built with the grandeur of an alpha city, never really thought of itself in that self confident way. It was an outpost of a greater empire, looking to London, and was for much of its history until the 70's historically overshadowed by larger Montreal, where much of the establishment and old money lived. New York never had that kind of dynamic. Toronto is coming into its own now, but the difference is its history as "Alpha" city of an independent nation is much, much shorter than that of international peers, and in a fractured and regionalized federation like Canada, especially with the language factor, it is not quite so unchallenged an "Alpha" as a NY, London, or Paris is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top