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Old 10-07-2015, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,543,509 times
Reputation: 8193

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That is a good article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
This is actually the first commentary I have seen from a woman (even a Muslim woman) who isn't veiled herself, and that is critical of banning the niqab.

BTW this writer has been a fairly passionate defender of Omar Khadr. I guess how you will view that will depend on how you feel about the guy.
Are you saying that you haven't seen articles by non-niqab wearing women who are against Harper being against the niqib, or are you saying the articles you have seen in favour of letting women decide whether they want to wear the niqab are all covered themselves? I've seen quite a few of both. And as far as editorials are concerned, even the Winnipeg Free Press was against the "us" and "them" stunt Harper is trying to pull.
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Old 10-07-2015, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,543,509 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souriquois View Post
Khadr was a kid. His parents are sacks of ****. CPS should have intervened, that's the biggest case of child endangerment I've ever seen.

Like seriously, leave your kid alone at home for too long you can get charged, these parents ended up causing one kid to be paralyzed and one sent to Gitmo.

Cowards to force their kids into it.
Agree about Khadar. He was a child. We don't sentence kids as we do adults and it is shameful what the Harper government did. And it is shameful how he is trying to make two classes of Canadian citizens. It's like adopting a child and then when the kid gets into trouble, disowning him as not of your own biological material. There are good Canadians and bad Canadians and if they are bad Canadians, they should certainly be punished in accordance with our laws but that doesn't make them less Canadians.

I don't agree that the parents were cowards. They were certainly misguided but I think in their own minds they were behaving with what they thought was right. That doesn't make them any less wrong of course. I just disagree that it makes them cowards.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,956 posts, read 27,377,612 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
That is a good article.



Are you saying that you haven't seen articles by non-niqab wearing women who are against Harper being against the niqib, or are you saying the articles you have seen in favour of letting women decide whether they want to wear the niqab are all covered themselves? I've seen quite a few of both. And as far as editorials are concerned, even the Winnipeg Free Press was against the "us" and "them" stunt Harper is trying to pull.
I guess I wasn't completely clear. All of the Muslim women (non-veiled, even some hijab wearers) I've heard on this tend to say the niqab sucks. Most of the female commentators who speak out in favour tend to be Christian or post-Christian women who have no stake or experience in this.

I agree about the Harper stunt BTW, and I too am angry about it. It won't change the way I vote and it won't be for him.

But that doesn't mean I am going to throw all of the anti-niqab feminists and their valid cause under the bus and start being pro-niqab just because I am angry at Harper.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:19 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 2,183,378 times
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I was listening to CBC Radio One yesterday, and one political commentator brought up a really interesting point about how political parties in this election (esp. the Conservatives) are using online social media content and online behavior to specifically identify who is devout supporter and who isn't. By doing so, they focused their entire campaign on targeting their solid supporters while completely ignoring - and in the Niqab issue - going so far as to actively antagonize and alienate those who would not vote for them. The conservatives (and other parties) can now definitively identify their exact voter base, while not feeling any electoral consequences if they were to antagonize every other voter group.

I suppose this is an *interesting* evolution in elections technology and strategy, but it is also somewhat sad and lamenting because a party can form government of an entire country by actively ignoring and antagonizing a large portion of the nation's voters.

Last edited by bostonkid123; 10-08-2015 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,956 posts, read 27,377,612 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
I was listening to CBC Radio One yesterday, and one political commentator brought up a really interesting point about how political parties in this election (esp. the Conservatives) are using online social media content and online behavior to specifically identify who is devout supporter and who isn't. By doing so, they focused their entire campaign on targeting their solid supporters while completely ignoring - and in the Niqab issue - going so far as to actively antagonize and alienate those who would not vote for them. The conservatives (and other parties) can now definitely identify their exact voter base, while not feeling any electoral consequences if they were to antagonize every other voter group.

I suppose this is an *interesting* evolution in elections technology and strategy, but it is also somewhat sad and lamenting because a party can form government of an entire country by actively ignoring and antagonizing a large portion of the nation's voters.
That would have been interesting to listen to.

Given the current trends, I am not really sure if democracy has a bright future ahead of it!
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:45 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 2,183,378 times
Reputation: 1816
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
I was listening to CBC Radio One yesterday, and one political commentator brought up a really interesting point about how political parties in this election (esp. the Conservatives) are using online social media content and online behavior to specifically identify who is devout supporter and who isn't. By doing so, they focused their entire campaign on targeting their solid supporters while completely ignoring - and in the Niqab issue - going so far as to actively antagonize and alienate those who would not vote for them. The conservatives (and other parties) can now definitively identify their exact voter base, while not feeling any electoral consequences if they were to antagonize every other voter group.

I suppose this is an *interesting* evolution in elections technology and strategy, but it is also somewhat sad and lamenting because a party can form government of an entire country by actively ignoring and antagonizing a large portion of the nation's voters.
Just to follow up on my previous post - this is the guy that the Conservatives brought in around early September - a somewhat controversial Australian political strategist named Lynton Crosby who is famous for using online big data analytics to "fine-tune" and target specific sets of voters. He helped David Cameron's Conservatives win the last UK election, and is famous for using "wedge issues" to split and divert public opinion away from the usual policy debates (economy, government accountability, health care, etc.) to "value debates" (foreign immigrants, race relations, family values, etc.).

Definitely a useful guy to have on one's campaign team, and can be rather interesting to watch how all this unfolds if one temporarily bends and shelves one's moral judgments.

Controversial Australian strategist to help with Tories' campaign - The Globe and Mail
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,956 posts, read 27,377,612 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Just to follow up on my previous post - this is the guy that the Conservatives brought in around early September - a somewhat controversial Australian political strategist named Lynton Crosby who is famous for using online big data analytics to "fine-tune" and target specific sets of voters. He helped David Cameron's Conservatives win the last UK election, and is famous for using "wedge issues" to split and divert public opinion away from the usual policy debates (economy, government accountability, health care, etc.) to "value debates" (foreign immigrants, race relations, family values, etc.).

Definitely a useful guy to have on one's campaign team, and can be rather interesting to watch how all this unfolds if one temporarily bends and shelves one's moral judgments.

Controversial Australian strategist to help with Tories' campaign - The Globe and Mail
Yes, he of the legendary "dead cat" thrown on the table...
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:59 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 2,183,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yes, he of the legendary "dead cat" thrown on the table...
He's also known as the "Wizard of OZ"
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:17 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,276,120 times
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You guys are being overly dramatic here. How does banning niqab in public service equal treating Muslim as second class citizens?

A lot of other things are banned in public service. For example, I can't come to work nude, or in my speedos. I am not sure what the boss will say if my Japanese colleague wear her kimono to work either.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:22 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 2,183,378 times
Reputation: 1816
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
You guys are being overly dramatic here. How does banning niqab in public service equal treating Muslim as second class citizens?

A lot of other things are banned in public service. For example, I can't come to work nude, or in my speedos. I am not sure what the boss will say if my Japanese colleague wear her kimono to work either.
Work places can have their own dress codes. Not a problem. But why does the prime minister of an entire country have to dictate into legislation what people can and cannot wear? And how is this even a relevant election issue?

It was the Conservative campaign manager who said that the niqab issue is something that "challenges our core Canadian values" - talk about being dramatic.
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