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Old 10-01-2015, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's not that it's homogenous, it's just that it's on a common wavelength much of the time. That wavelength can have multicultural influences within it. Indeed, it does - many of them.
Well sure - you can get Pho in Hartford but the truth is there are increasingly outside Canamerican 'things' that influence everything from what we eat, how we do dress, what we watch, where we shop and what we listen too etc. I'm as much or often times more likely to eat food listen to music that is NOT North American at all. Even my TV/Movie viewing habits are far more international than ever before because the internet has introduced and opened up a world of entertainment.. I'm not trying to dissociate from an Anglo North American society and i'm not ashamed of it either, however I can't deny what I eat, what I watch and what I listen too anymore than you can.
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well sure - you can get Pho in Hartford but the truth is there are increasingly outside Canamerican 'things' that influence everything from what we eat, how we do dress, what we watch, where we shop and what we listen too etc. I'm as much or often times more likely to eat food listen to music that is NOT North American at all. Even my TV/Movie viewing habits are far more international than ever before because the internet has introduced and opened up a world of entertainment.. I'm not trying to dissociate from an Anglo North American society and i'm not ashamed of it either, however I can't deny what I eat, what I watch and what I listen too anymore than you can.
I think that many people on a forum such as this one are fairly atypical. I include myself in that as well.
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You should also consider the hypothesis (extremely likely) that you are atypical.
Disagree - this is where the fact you don't live in Toronto and aren't integrated in with the people who do live here comes through. No disrespect but my experience is not all that atypical.. It may be a bit more yes, but not that much. My Anglo friends/family are also more inclined to eat, listen to music or watch shows/movies that aren't just Canamerican/American and also increasingly globally influenced. I would say without a doubt that for TV/Movies/Music American produced stuff is still at the top of any other country but its becoming more and more diverse all the time. Food is at the vanguard though, less and less people of anglo persuasion are eating Canameran/American food! Why would I spend 8 dollars for crappy Mcd's when I can spend 8 bucks on a lovely Butter Chicken or Vindaloo, Rice and Naan lunch that is made with fresh ingredients? A lot of people are like me too.

Last edited by fusion2; 10-01-2015 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Disagree - this is where the fact you don't live in Toronto and aren't integrated in with the people who do live here comes through. No disrespect but my experience is not all that atypical.. It may be a bit more yes, but not that much. My Anglo friends/family are also more inclined to eat, listen to music or watch shows/movies that aren't just Canamerican/American and also increasingly globally influenced. I would say without a doubt that for TV/Movies/Music American produced stuff is still at the top of any other country but its becoming more and more diverse all the time. Food is at the vanguard though, less and less people of anglo persuasion are eating Canameran/American food! Why would I spend 8 dollars for crappy Mcd's when I can spend 8 bucks on a lovely Butter Chicken, Rice and Naan lunch that is made with fresh ingredients? A lot of people are like me too.
I think you might be mistaking your entourage with wider society. I am not disputing that there is a significant number of people like you and your friends. My point is rather that the mainstream does exist and it is big.

I live in a city in Quebec of 275,000 people. Most of the people I hang out with are white collar, university educated, well travelled Québécois professional types. I am sure they eat most of the stuff you eat, perhaps with less emphasis on Indian and more emphasis on Middle Eastern. About half of them speak French, English and Spanish. I and most of my siblings (except one who is only bilingual) are trilingual and my wife's siblings are trilingual. My wife speaks four languages.

It is what it is, but I am not for a minute under the illusion that this is representative of the wider society that I live in. Maybe a small subset of it? And even so...
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Disagree - this is where the fact you don't live in Toronto and aren't integrated in with the people who do live here comes through. .
And BTW I don't actually think that contemporary Toronto is particularly ''special'' in this respect.
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
And BTW I don't actually think that contemporary Toronto is particularly ''special'' in this respect.
I'm not saying that Toronto is 'special' AJ.. I'm telling you that more and more its not just my 'entourage' as you call it.. The fact is I can only really speak to Toronto because I live here, but if you come to Toronto (and yes many other larger more multicultural cities in Canamerica) and go to many restaurants here you're as likely to see an Anglo eating at a multiethnic restaurant as you would at Mcdonalds, Wendy's, Caplanski's, Frans or a local diner. That is simply a fact.

My entourage is everyone whom I work with, my family, friends and associates (many of whom are extraordinarily diverse themselves - half my coworkers aren't white lol) and they do influence their white colleagues and friends - what they eat and yes even what they listen to and what they watch. You just can't deny this shift in modern multicultural anglo Canamerican society. It is a seismic shift and yes these people who are not anglo will and do influence anglos in a city like Toronto. Is this happening in Boston or S.F or NYC or L.A - Of course it is, to deny this increasingly globalized multicultural part of our lives is just being disingenuous.. You can call it an illusion if you want but I think you're wrong with such a conclusion and I think the way the wind is blowing, a more integrated multicultural society is becoming more and more the case with every passing year. This isn't denying a 'mainstream' anglo society, but it certainly is becoming more and more diluted.

Btw I eat Middle eastern all the time for the record - about as much as Indian and Chinese/Indian fusions.. Thai and other S.E Asians are still my favourite though and have a soft spot for Jerk Chicken also.

Last edited by fusion2; 10-01-2015 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:01 AM
 
1,218 posts, read 2,114,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
They're all still part of the same broader cultural space: Anglo North America. There are multiple cultural spaces out there, and often places are part of more than one as they can overlap.

In the case of the cities mentioned, the Anglo North American cultural space is the dominant one, and for most people tonight it defined what they watched on TV, what book they read, what music they listened to, what they had for dinner, what concert they attended, what nursery rhyme they sang to their kids, what movie they went to see, what clothes they wore, etc.
Yes, it is true that Anglo Canadian and American culture overlap, there are differences but even more similarities and we all know it is due to our historical evolution as a people - we came from the same places but some settled south, some north, and there was a lot of movement between the two nations pre-20th century. I've lived in both countries and day-to-day lifestyle is pretty similar, it's not like comparing to China or India. We do have similar taste in music, clothes, food, houses, cars, architecture, style, social norms etc. but we have more noticeable differences in terms of politics and government.

Our similar tastes in day-to-day things that you point to are a result of our very similar origins and if we consume a large amount of US products, it is because of the fact that the US industries dominate Canadian ones in terms of production of such cultural output, it is not necessarily due to an 'obsession' with the US. If there's a good musical artist, I'll listen to him/her regardless of where he/she is from. If anything, rightly or wrongly, many Canadians like to emphasize how we are different so I don't think the majority of Canada wants the country to phase out differences to become just like the US, although the Harper government has pushed us closer in many ways. Canadians also do focus more on local news, issues, and happenings first and foremost, yes, big US news will be known, but big US news is worldwide news and many times could impact us so of course our big neighbour is on our radar too.

Last edited by johnathanc; 10-02-2015 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:47 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,253,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Disagree - this is where the fact you don't live in Toronto and aren't integrated in with the people who do live here comes through. No disrespect but my experience is not all that atypical.. It may be a bit more yes, but not that much. My Anglo friends/family are also more inclined to eat, listen to music or watch shows/movies that aren't just Canamerican/American and also increasingly globally influenced. I would say without a doubt that for TV/Movies/Music American produced stuff is still at the top of any other country but its becoming more and more diverse all the time. Food is at the vanguard though, less and less people of anglo persuasion are eating Canameran/American food! Why would I spend 8 dollars for crappy Mcd's when I can spend 8 bucks on a lovely Butter Chicken or Vindaloo, Rice and Naan lunch that is made with fresh ingredients? A lot of people are like me too.
Fusion: you are not a typical Canadian. Consider this: you were born and grew up in Toronto, which makes you a lot urban than most Canadians, including the "GTA" folks whose interaction with Toronto is primarily Eaton centre, ACC/Rogers centre and Yonge st (trust me, plenty of GTA folks come to downtown for work everyday but have no idea of the layout of the city, its street orientation, not to mention where to eat). You also married a non-Canadians with a completely different cultural background and travel a lot outside Canada/America, which makes you more diverse (and possibly open minded) than most Canadians.

Most Canadians still have the regular potato, corn bread, burger/sandwich, beef/chicken breast diet like 95% of the time, and their travel destinations never extend outside America and the Caribbean's (maybe plus a few W. Europe countries). And that applies to Canadians who don't speak a second language across the country.

I am not saying Canadians don't have regional cultural differences - just that in the eyes of an outsider, that's really insignificant.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,689 posts, read 6,532,688 times
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So maybe someone could present an outline about a 'typical' Canadian. Apparently a typical Canadian is Anglo? What percentage of English-Canadians are there in Canada?
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Old 10-02-2015, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Fusion: you are not a typical Canadian. Consider this: you were born and grew up in Toronto, which makes you a lot urban than most Canadians, including the "GTA" folks whose interaction with Toronto is primarily Eaton centre, ACC/Rogers centre and Yonge st (trust me, plenty of GTA folks come to downtown for work everyday but have no idea of the layout of the city, its street orientation, not to mention where to eat). You also married a non-Canadians with a completely different cultural background and travel a lot outside Canada/America, which makes you more diverse (and possibly open minded) than most Canadians.

Most Canadians still have the regular potato, corn bread, burger/sandwich, beef/chicken breast diet like 95% of the time, and their travel destinations never extend outside America and the Caribbean's (maybe plus a few W. Europe countries). And that applies to Canadians who don't speak a second language across the country .

I am not saying Canadians don't have regional cultural differences - just that in the eyes of an outsider, that's really insignificant.
I don't disagree with you Botti and I wasn't trying to be Captain Canada here lol.. Toronto IS a part of Canada though so I am as much a part of the Canadian experience as someone from Red Deer am I not? Aren't you? If you notice I was talking and referring to large multicultural cities in Canamerica - not rural places btw.. Did you miss that part

Btw my colleague who is white introduced me to Vindaloo for the record - just sayin we have to check our generalizations at the door more and more because the face of a Canadian is changing and even anglo Canadians are increasingly being exposed to the world around them. I would agree, I am more atypical than most but I think we need to give more credit where due to many anglo Canadians and how they are influenced by the increasingly multicultural world around them.. Even the demographic and face of a city like Calgary is changing dramatically and in some parts could influence the vote away from more traditional blue as an example - something unthinkable even in the 2011 election. So yes, I stand by what I said that there is most definitely a seismic shift when it comes to this.

Last edited by fusion2; 10-02-2015 at 03:29 PM..
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