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Old 09-30-2015, 09:55 AM
 
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We're so enthralled with Americans they haven't been mentioned at all on an English speaking board in the last bunch of posts on the topic.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
No, I am saying that it is. Countering BruSan's claim that people in Quebec are somehow obsessed with Anglo-Canada. They're not IMO.

This indifference is not necessarily a positive trait BTW. But it is what it is.
Ok. I agree, they seem more obsessed with the US and France, than the ROC.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Ok. I agree, they seem more obsessed with the US and France, than the ROC.
Yes, that is the usual outward focus in Quebec. But both of these pale in comparison to the inward focus on Quebec itself.
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Old 10-01-2015, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Halifax, NS
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Over here, they're more obsessed with the British. They want to be British. Remember before WWII they called themselves "British North Americans", not "Canadians" (only French-speakers call themselves that).

That's one thing I observe about them, from a French-Canadian-from-outside-Quebec perspective, they seem to have some kind of complex, in feeling inferior to other groups to the point that they feel the need to be subservient: there groups are usually the British, who they believe are "classier" and "more cultured" and Jews, who they believe are a "superior race". (seriously one ACTUALLY said that to me once).

Maybe out West, Americans, but there is not much love here... they don't have much love for Americans, though they've warmed up a bit since they elected Obama down there.

But I remember when I was living in Texas, people who found out I was a French Canadian (I'm not from Quebec and don't have a French accent, I think that confuses people) would tell me what English people said about French Canadians to them and I'd respond with what they said about Americans to me... which is pretty bad, and sick stuff... like they "deserved 9/11" and stuff. Seriously.
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:50 AM
 
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The Jews are not even a race but simply a religion. A Jew can be white, black or Asian.

The 911 victims definitely don't deserve it, but the US government does deserve the attack and humiliation, I'd say. But judging by what it did afterwards (continued efforts to stick its nose where it doesn't belong or attempted regime change such as in Syria) it is practically begging for another one. So those people do have a point.
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Old 10-01-2015, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The Jews are not even a race but simply a religion. A Jew can be white, black or Asian.
.
Converts notwithstanding, some religions are also cultural. Mennonites share that as well. And if it were only a religion, I wouldn't know so many Jewish atheists or agnostics.
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Old 10-01-2015, 01:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Converts notwithstanding, some religions are also cultural. Mennonites share that as well. And if it were only a religion, I wouldn't know so many Jewish atheists or agnostics.
Right. Jews are not exactly a national group (even though Zionism exists as the "Jewish nationalist" ideology), but they're definitely more than a religion, and in the realm of a cultural group that transcends belief.

But this raises another question in my mind, about Muslims. Muslims, while in theory a group of believers, are in the mind of probably most Canadians actually a visible minority. We hear a lot about islamophobia these days; in fact the Quebec National Assembly just today unanimously approved a motion condemning islamophobia in the wake of the debate over wearing a niqab at citizenship ceremonies. This motion seems to define islamophobia as promoting hatred and violence against people of the Muslim faith, which is a narrow definition. But other people seem to use islamophobia with other definitions, such as discrimination against people belonging to ethnic groups perceived by the population as being Muslims (so usually Middle-Easterners), discrimination on the basis of using symbols viewed by the population as being Islamic, or even criticism of Islamic ideology or of practices that are either Islamic or associated with majority Islamic populations.

I've recently read an essay by Charb, the Charlie Hebdo cartoonist who was murdered in the terrorist attack against his workplace in January. In the essay, finished shortly before his death, he argues that this confusion over the word islamophobia plays into the hands both of radical Islamists and of racists who wish to discriminate against people based on ethnic origin or beliefs. Radical Islamists want to make criticism of their beliefs and practices condemned by society, while racists want to build an equivalence between disagreeing with an ideology and discriminating against actual people. I think in much of the Western world there is a misapprehension about what Islam really is. For example, if you're the son or daughters of Muslims, are you necessarily Muslim yourself? Does being Muslim come with a manner of being that is as unchangeable as your skin colour and needs to be protected from discrimination in the same way? Does being Muslim make you part of a discrete community, or of one of many discrete communities? All these are questions we need to ask ourselves.
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,701 posts, read 6,555,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
Right. Jews are not exactly a national group (even though Zionism exists as the "Jewish nationalist" ideology), but they're definitely more than a religion, and in the realm of a cultural group that transcends belief.

But this raises another question in my mind, about Muslims. Muslims, while in theory a group of believers, are in the mind of probably most Canadians actually a visible minority. We hear a lot about islamophobia these days; in fact the Quebec National Assembly just today unanimously approved a motion condemning islamophobia in the wake of the debate over wearing a niqab at citizenship ceremonies. This motion seems to define islamophobia as promoting hatred and violence against people of the Muslim faith, which is a narrow definition. But other people seem to use islamophobia with other definitions, such as discrimination against people belonging to ethnic groups perceived by the population as being Muslims (so usually Middle-Easterners), discrimination on the basis of using symbols viewed by the population as being Islamic, or even criticism of Islamic ideology or of practices that are either Islamic or associated with majority Islamic populations.

I've recently read an essay by Charb, the Charlie Hebdo cartoonist who was murdered in the terrorist attack against his workplace in January. In the essay, finished shortly before his death, he argues that this confusion over the word islamophobia plays into the hands both of radical Islamists and of racists who wish to discriminate against people based on ethnic origin or beliefs. Radical Islamists want to make criticism of their beliefs and practices condemned by society, while racists want to build an equivalence between disagreeing with an ideology and discriminating against actual people. I think in much of the Western world there is a misapprehension about what Islam really is. For example, if you're the son or daughters of Muslims, are you necessarily Muslim yourself? Does being Muslim come with a manner of being that is as unchangeable as your skin colour and needs to be protected from discrimination in the same way? Does being Muslim make you part of a discrete community, or of one of many discrete communities? All these are questions we need to ask ourselves.
I think Muslims have an equivalency in the Catholic Chruch. I assume that religious Catholics have a feeling of spiritual kinship with other Catholics but that doesn't make Catholicism an ethnic group. It is a faith translated mostly through the eyes of a western culture. Islam, to my understanding, is much the same, only translated through an eastern culture. I've never perceived Islam as being tied to an ethnic group. Muslims in the west, regardless of ethnic origin, probably do tend to form a kind of community, due to finding themselves a minority faith, and recently the object of suspicion.

As a member of a minority culture, I can say that the worst thing you can do is to put such pressure in the form of suspicion and discrimination on a faith, as to validate a feeling of righteous martyrdom on them. Even those who, under other circumstances, might have become westernized and secular in their thinking.

I'm sure that there are cradle Muslims as there are cradle Catholcs since people, on average, tend to follow the beliefs of their parents.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:32 AM
 
34,479 posts, read 41,610,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
Like what Americans think of them? Why is this such a big deal in Ontario and the ROC?

Even if there is a small news piece in a little American town that mentions Canada then CTV take notice and over analyze the deep meaning of it. Actually when you ask a English Canadian to identify that culture they always mention something like contrasts to Americans. Take the Vancouver winter Olympics, the overall message was to use the events as a step to say to the earth "we are not America".
Does anyone else wonder why things are like this?
Its basically just the way you see it,your opinion/viewpoint, in reality all the Canadians i know and interact with dont bother themselves much with the goings on in America other than major news events or watching American tv.You have to remember America is a very big neighbor it would be un-natural for it not to have some influences on the Canadian mosaic.
If you want to put forth this line of rational some examples rather than your personal opinions might go a long way to making your point.
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Brossard
66 posts, read 109,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
And yet another of these "I'm a Quebecois which makes me so special, now how can I show derision to the ROC ...oh wait ....."

Why are Quebecois so entranced with everything Anglo to the point of feeling compelled to deride it so frequently? It sure isn't Anglos starting all these stupid threads over Quebec and it's "special culture".

Who is it again that has the identity inferiority complex?
The constant need for some Quebecois to make themselves feel so different by belittling the roc is becoming ridiculous. I know enough of them that just go on and on about how there is supposedly so much more culture in Quebec.If anything the Quebecois are so obssessed with thinking that they're so different from the roc that they convince themselves that they never even think about the roc, even though it's pretty common sentiment here to make comparisons either to Canada or France whenever they explain things to tourists as if it's always on their mind

As with the debate at hand. I live in Quebec and have been to Calgary,Toronto,Ottawa and the Maritimes all fairly recently and definitely never noticed an obssession with the United states.There are enough things going on In these places politically and culturally to occupy their attention. No matter how subtle the differences, most people in this country can immediately tell the difference between a Canadian and American and it has nothing to do with an inferiority complex

Last edited by Nationalistdefeator; 10-02-2015 at 06:12 AM..
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