U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-29-2015, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,365,858 times
Reputation: 8606

Advertisements

Somehow I suspect that Annuvin probably uses miles in everyday speech in Oshawa, Whitby, Ajax, Pickering and Toronto...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-29-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,256 posts, read 6,591,773 times
Reputation: 14273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I know your tongue is slightly in your cheek, but seriously why would one want to change the way you write to avoid confusing people in this way on the Canadian forum?

I don't really care about such things. I even post in km and degrees C in exchanges with Americans elsewhere on city-data. No big deal.
Yeah, it was tongue in cheek.

But, to answer your question - I am one of those who changes the way I write when I'm talking about temperatures and distances online. Because so many Americans read on here, and because so many other forums I participate on are populated by a majority of Americans who are clueless and/or resistant about metrics because they feel threatened by it. So when I'm posting temperatures and travel distances I try to be helpful and include both systems together side by side - i.e. K/M and C/F. I do it to be polite and to help educate them and maybe make it easier for them to broaden their horizons. I figure if people see it often enough then some of it will eventually sink in and it won't seem so repellant and alien to them, maybe it will become more automatic and less threatening for them.

I'm putting myself in other people's shoes, and remembering how it was for me when we switched over to metric. I'm old enough that the metric system was hard for me to adapt to because the standard or imperial system of measures was so engrained in me. It was what I grew up with, part of me, part of things that I identify with and I was set in my ways. I had a mental block about it (I still do) and it was very upsetting for me to have to adapt to something I felt was foreign and was being forced upon me against my will, difficult for me to adapt to and like having to learn a new language that I didn't want to learn. To be honest, I still think or visualize more easily (for me) in standard or imperial measures when it comes to temperatures and in measurements like feet and inches. I don't even know how many cm or mm tall I am or how many kg I weigh and I don't care or want to know. I do know that I'm 5'2" and weigh 126 lbs (and that's also what's still on my drivers license) and the most comfortable ambient temperature for me is 70F and I'm content with those measures because that's what I relate to.

.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2015, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,365,858 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Yeah, it was tongue in cheek.

But, to answer your question - I am one of those who changes the way I write when I'm talking about temperatures and distances online. Because so many Americans read on here, and because so many other forums I participate on are populated by a majority of Americans who are clueless and/or resistant about metrics because they feel threatened by it. So when I'm posting temperatures and travel distances I try to be helpful and include both systems together side by side - i.e. K/M and C/F. I do it to be polite and to help educate them and maybe make it easier for them to broaden their horizons. I figure if people see it often enough then some of it will eventually sink in and it won't seem so repellant and alien to them, maybe it will become more automatic and less threatening for them.

I'm putting myself in other people's shoes, and remembering how it was for me when we switched over to metric. I'm old enough that the metric system was hard for me to adapt to because the standard or imperial system of measures was so engrained in me. It was what I grew up with, part of me, part of things that I identify with and I was set in my ways. I had a mental block about it (I still do) and it was very upsetting for me to have to adapt to something I felt was foreign and was being forced upon me against my will, difficult for me to adapt to and like having to learn a new language that I didn't want to learn. To be honest, I still think or visualize more easily (for me) in standard or imperial measures when it comes to temperatures and in measurements like feet and inches. I don't even know how many cm or mm tall I am or how many kg I weigh and I don't care or want to know. I do know that I'm 5'2" and weigh 126 lbs (and that's also what's still on my drivers license) and the most comfortable ambient temperature for me is 70F and I'm content with those measures because that's what I relate to.

.
All of which is perfectly fine. I don't begrudge Americans who use F and miles, etc. on here BTW.

But I am also... "unapologetically myself'"!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2015, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,146,540 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

But I am also... "unapologetically myself'"!
Well of course you are AJ... What's not to love

Sorry - couldn't resist lol.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2015, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,365,858 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well of course you are AJ... What's not to love

Sorry - couldn't resist lol.
You love me the way I am, admit it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2015, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,265 posts, read 13,167,241 times
Reputation: 13467
I'll also talk miles and Fahrenheit on here for Americans, just cause it's easier to get it across. And, it's perfectly natural for me down here to use such terms.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2015, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,176 posts, read 1,754,272 times
Reputation: 2647
Your whole post was excellent, Zoisite. With further comments, I'd like to concentrate on this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I'm putting myself in other people's shoes, and remembering how it was for me when we switched over to metric. I'm old enough that the metric system was hard for me to adapt to because the standard or imperial system of measures was so engrained in me. It was what I grew up with, part of me, part of things that I identify with and I was set in my ways. I had a mental block about it (I still do) and it was very upsetting for me to have to adapt to something I felt was foreign and was being forced upon me against my will, difficult for me to adapt to and like having to learn a new language that I didn't want to learn. To be honest, I still think or visualize more easily (for me) in standard or imperial measures when it comes to temperatures and in measurements like feet and inches. I don't even know how many cm or mm tall I am or how many kg I weigh and I don't care or want to know. I do know that I'm 5'2" and weigh 126 lbs (and that's also what's still on my drivers license) and the most comfortable ambient temperature for me is 70F and I'm content with those measures because that's what I relate to.
Emphasis added by me.

I don't think young people today realize just how much we, who lived through the transition and "spoke" perfect Imperial (to borrow Zoisite's language metaphor), were upset by the transition.

First of all was the question, "why?" The answer was usually, "Because the rest of the world uses it," or "Because it's easier." The dumbest answer I ever got was, "Well, when you go to Europe, you'll know how hot or cold it is outside, because they only use Celsius in weather forecasts."

But what the rest of the world did was of no concern to us, who drove in miles per hour in Canada, bought drinks in ounces and gas in gallons in Canada, and bought meat by the pound in Canada. How did the measurements used by rest of the world affect our everyday lives in Canada? Nothing was broke in Canada, why did we feel the need to fix it?

All of a sudden, road signs changed. I knew that it was 250 miles from Toronto to Ottawa; I had no idea how far 400 km was. My speedometer was calibrated in mph but speed limits were now in km/h. The stickers I bought to overlay my speedometer weren't much help--they were hard to position, and ended up in the wrong spots. In the end, I simply remembered: the 401 was 60 mph last month; therefore, it is still 60 mph this month. Kingston is still three hours away from Toronto via 401 when travelling at 60 mph. And so on.

There was a fear--unsubstianted, as it turned out--that manufacturers would "round" their measurements down, and we'd be ripped off. For example, a one-pound bag of cookies (454 g) would now be 400 g. But it would cost the same as a one-pound bag. At any rate, that's why we had so many unusual and strange measurements on packaging: 454 g, 355 ml, and the like: because as a response to the "ripoff" fear, manufacturers simply converted the standard round Imperial sizes (one pound, 12 oz, respectively) to the metric equivalent. Prices on some things did look like they rose: meat that had been $2.00 per pound was now advertised (by law) as $4.40 per kg. Problem was, nobody knew what a kg was, except it obviously made things more expensive.

Nextly was the zeal with which the "Metric Cops" pounced. They'd get a tip from a metric supporter that such-and-such a place wasn't using metric. As a result, raids were undertaken, and merchants were not just handed a ticket, but suffered the loss of their property. Butcher's scales in Imperial were seized, for example; and obviously in fear of the Metric Cops who were undoubtedly lurking nearby, I once witnessed a supermarket deli clerk screaming at a customer that "You have to ask for it in grams! You're not allowed to say pounds!" (The customer--a sweet-looking little old lady--eventually ended up telling the deli clerk to go f**k herself.) In the most extreme case, the owner of a gas station in Toronto was arrested, his pumps were locked and sealed; and as a result of the cost of defending the charges, he lost his gas station. (Car Cafe on Queen Street East, as I recall.) His only "crime"? Selling gas by the gallon. Many of us, in private conversations, likened the Metric Cops' tactics to those of Nazi Stormtroopers.

There was, in short, a great deal of resentment that something foreign that we never asked for was being forced upon us against our will (again, as Zoisite said). The United States, the only country with which we share a land border, wasn't going to change; the UK, an overseas country, but one from which we derived much of our heritage and institutions, wasn't changing. So why should we change? Just so we knew the temperature in Paris, in Vienna, in Athens? Not a good reason.

There was a great deal of resistance and resentment. I don't blame Zoisite at all for feeling the way she does. I feel the same way. I still measure my height in feet and inches, my weight in pounds, and I keep my thermostat at 70F. "My miles and my ounces, they comfort me."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2015, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,265 posts, read 13,167,241 times
Reputation: 13467
I remember when I was looking for my first car, I found this 1970 something Ford pick up. I saw the speedometer, and asked if it was an import from the States. My step dad and the seller laughed at me. lol
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,541,240 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Your whole post was excellent, Zoisite. With further comments, I'd like to concentrate on this:

Emphasis added by me.

I don't think young people today realize just how much we, who lived through the transition and "spoke" perfect Imperial (to borrow Zoisite's language metaphor), were upset by the transition.

First of all was the question, "why?" The answer was usually, "Because the rest of the world uses it," or "Because it's easier." The dumbest answer I ever got was, "Well, when you go to Europe, you'll know how hot or cold it is outside, because they only use Celsius in weather forecasts."

But what the rest of the world did was of no concern to us, who drove in miles per hour in Canada, bought drinks in ounces and gas in gallons in Canada, and bought meat by the pound in Canada. How did the measurements used by rest of the world affect our everyday lives in Canada? Nothing was broke in Canada, why did we feel the need to fix it?

All of a sudden, road signs changed. I knew that it was 250 miles from Toronto to Ottawa; I had no idea how far 400 km was. My speedometer was calibrated in mph but speed limits were now in km/h. The stickers I bought to overlay my speedometer weren't much help--they were hard to position, and ended up in the wrong spots. In the end, I simply remembered: the 401 was 60 mph last month; therefore, it is still 60 mph this month. Kingston is still three hours away from Toronto via 401 when travelling at 60 mph. And so on.

There was a fear--unsubstianted, as it turned out--that manufacturers would "round" their measurements down, and we'd be ripped off. For example, a one-pound bag of cookies (454 g) would now be 400 g. But it would cost the same as a one-pound bag. At any rate, that's why we had so many unusual and strange measurements on packaging: 454 g, 355 ml, and the like: because as a response to the "ripoff" fear, manufacturers simply converted the standard round Imperial sizes (one pound, 12 oz, respectively) to the metric equivalent. Prices on some things did look like they rose: meat that had been $2.00 per pound was now advertised (by law) as $4.40 per kg. Problem was, nobody knew what a kg was, except it obviously made things more expensive.

Nextly was the zeal with which the "Metric Cops" pounced. They'd get a tip from a metric supporter that such-and-such a place wasn't using metric. As a result, raids were undertaken, and merchants were not just handed a ticket, but suffered the loss of their property. Butcher's scales in Imperial were seized, for example; and obviously in fear of the Metric Cops who were undoubtedly lurking nearby, I once witnessed a supermarket deli clerk screaming at a customer that "You have to ask for it in grams! You're not allowed to say pounds!" (The customer--a sweet-looking little old lady--eventually ended up telling the deli clerk to go f**k herself.) In the most extreme case, the owner of a gas station in Toronto was arrested, his pumps were locked and sealed; and as a result of the cost of defending the charges, he lost his gas station. (Car Cafe on Queen Street East, as I recall.) His only "crime"? Selling gas by the gallon. Many of us, in private conversations, likened the Metric Cops' tactics to those of Nazi Stormtroopers.

There was, in short, a great deal of resentment that something foreign that we never asked for was being forced upon us against our will (again, as Zoisite said). The United States, the only country with which we share a land border, wasn't going to change; the UK, an overseas country, but one from which we derived much of our heritage and institutions, wasn't changing. So why should we change? Just so we knew the temperature in Paris, in Vienna, in Athens? Not a good reason.

There was a great deal of resistance and resentment. I don't blame Zoisite at all for feeling the way she does. I feel the same way. I still measure my height in feet and inches, my weight in pounds, and I keep my thermostat at 70F. "My miles and my ounces, they comfort me."
That's really interesting. Maybe they did it differently here. I remember that they had a period where they used both Imperial measures and metric. I do remember shopkeepers being concerned about the cost of switching over their scales and there might well have been trouble I didn't know about on their end, but as far as consumers were concerned, when someone asked for something in the measurement they were used to, they were told what the metric equivalent was without any attitude and people made jokes about it, but I only saw good grace on both sides as we were all learning it together.I don't think people liked it or saw the reason for the change but people never like change.

The forecasts gave Celsius and Fahrenheit temperatures for some time, I don't remember how long it was. It didn't take long to figure out that 68F was 20 Celsius or thereabouts. And in this area, under Fahrenheit, locally people used to talk about 100F being hot and -30F being cold, they now still use -30 as a reference point of coldness, regardless of Fahrenheit or Celsius and in terms of heat, they switch between Fahrenheit and Celsius about equally, with "in the thirties" being very hot. I still measure myself in feet and pounds though.

The reason I remember given for the change was that measurements were more exact, and I believe we were told that some manufacturing sectors had long been using metric measurements, and that almost everyone in the world used metric, in as the world became smaller, it made sense to switch over to what most other countries were using.

I also both use miles and kilometres. I use miles on certain mile roads - they were placed a mile apart and so people still use miles in some circumstances when giving directions because it is easy to count the roads. My thermostat is also set in Fahrenheit as is my oven but if you get beyond 68F, I have no idea what that is in Celsius.

I remember a lot of jokes about "I drove 100 today."

I remember the Gimli glider (the plane that was fueled in litres and understood by the pilot to be fueled in gallons, with the end result being that the plane ran out of fuel, with almost horrible consequences) but I thought people adapted pretty well and the grumbling died down quite quickly.

I also grew up hearing the Russian verst and pud though. Maybe there were so many immigrants here that it was less of a big deal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,449,460 times
Reputation: 4409
Most of the world uses metric, not just Europe, and I think it was a good thing to change. It really does help when everyone understands the same thing. Especially given how international this country really is. I don't think it's enough to say you don't need something just because you don't want to get used to it.

If anything, I'm surprised Americans weren't the first on board to get rid of this relationship to the place it was once so vehemently seeking independence from.

Also just met a girl from Edmonton here in Nepal a week ago and she didn't know we used metric in Canada. It's still a growing pain and I have no idea why it should be for anyone younger than 40.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top