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Old 10-25-2015, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,873 posts, read 37,997,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
A majority of francophone Quebecers hate Harper, but this seems to be mostly those with left-leaning or centrist ideas. I don't really have my finger on the pulse of right-leaning francophone Quebecers, but it's still true that during Harper's tenure as Conservative leader, his party gained some solid support in conservative parts of Quebec it's not likely to lose anytime soon. People like to blame "Quebec City's trash radio" for this but there's more to it, and certainly the popularity of right-wing talk radio in Quebec City reflects the interests of the population. So did Harper really not manage to connect with francophones?

On the other hand it's true that he tended to speak to Quebecers through proxies (Denis Lebel, Maxime Bernier, Steven Blaney, etc.) Maybe it's because these people have greater goodwill than he does.
.
I'd still say he didn't connect with the vast majority of francophones. Mulroney proved that there is (or was?) an audience for a certain type of conservatism in Quebec. No federal leader has really been able to tap into that since him.
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,873 posts, read 37,997,315 times
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Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
even in places like Gatineau (where you live and where I grew up). .
Now there is an interesting tidbit of information! Were you waiting for the right moment to share that?
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,873 posts, read 37,997,315 times
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Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post


We'll see what Justin Trudeau does. But one thing I've thought when he became leader of the Liberal Party was that Pierre Trudeau, despite being arrogant and trying to make Quebec into what he wanted instead of what Quebecers wanted (which included denying that Quebecers are even a people, which is still the official policy of the Liberal Party), was undeniably a francophone and had francophone culture. So even while subsuming Quebec inside Canada and making francophones but one of Canada's thousands of ethnic minorities, he still would have wanted Quebec's culture to be an integral part of Canadian culture.

Justin Trudeau, I expect, will view himself and his background as a model of Canadian identity, or at least as a model of Canadian identity for francophones. But what he might not notice is that he grew up in Ottawa, speaking mostly English, and that he's not representative of the majority of francophone Quebecers. Nor is he really a model, despite what might be the accepted thinking among anglophones. The "Ottawa franglais" model might work for francophones outside Quebec, but not so much for Quebecers, even in places like Gatineau (where you live and where I grew up). So I expect that unless Trudeau gets counseled by people who truly understand Quebec culture, there will be a wedge between him and the majority of Quebecers. Whether this might cost him politically I cannot say yet.
Ever think it might go the other way, though? That he might be more willing to listen to others (including his wife) and be less of a know-it-all bulldozer on Quebec precisely he's kind of more of an outsider?

I mean the thing he said on Radio-Canada about maybe backing Quebec separatism if ever Canada really became ''Harper's Canada'' is something his father NEVER would have said under any circumstances. I know it's not directly related but to me it might show he doesn't divide that issue up as starkly as PET did between good vs. evil, Satan vs. Jesus, white cowboy hats vs. black cowboy hats...
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Now there is an interesting tidbit of information! Were you waiting for the right moment to share that?
Didn't I mention it before? I thought I had. I think I must have said that I have Franco-Ontarian friends, at least.
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
Didn't I mention it before? I thought I had. I think I must have said that I have Franco-Ontarian friends, at least.
If you did I missed it. I kind of assumed for some reason you were from Sherbrooke or the Eastern Townships.
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I mean the thing he said on Radio-Canada about maybe backing Quebec separatism if ever Canada really became ''Harper's Canada'' is something his father NEVER would have said under any circumstances. I know it's not directly related but to me it might show he doesn't divide that issue up as starkly as PET did between good vs. evil, Satan vs. Jesus, white cowboy hats vs. black cowboy hats...
I think that was more of a way to express how much he doesn't like what Harper was doing with Canada. John MacArthur of Harper's Magazine also published a column a few weeks ago in Le Devoir saying he'd become sovereigntist if Harper was reelected. While he probably isn't as opposed to Quebec nationalism as Justin Trudeau is, as evidenced by the fact that he writes for Le Devoir, this was also mostly a rhetorical device.

Justin Trudeau was against Meech, against Charlottetown, he's against any recognition of the Quebec nation, and I don't think he views himself as an outsider. I'm sure he thinks of himself as a francophone, and it's also how Canada views him. I don't think he's ever questioned the modern dogmas about Canada. His father, who he admires, was after all one of the builders of the modern Canadian nation and a proponent of these dogmas. I guess we'll see, but I'm not so confident.
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
If you did I missed it. I kind of assumed for some reason you were from Sherbrooke or the Eastern Townships.
I lived there from 2007 to 2013, and I loved the city, but I'd lived in Gatineau for the first 25 years of my life.
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,873 posts, read 37,997,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
I think that was more of a way to express how much he doesn't like what Harper was doing with Canada. John MacArthur of Harper's Magazine also published a column a few weeks ago in Le Devoir saying he'd become sovereigntist if Harper was reelected. While he probably isn't as opposed to Quebec nationalism as Justin Trudeau is, as evidenced by the fact that he writes for Le Devoir, this was also mostly a rhetorical device.

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I don't think he was being serious about becoming a sovereignist either, but his father would never had evoked this possibility, neither in hyperbole nor in jest. He was very sensitive about never giving any credibility to the independence movement.
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,873 posts, read 37,997,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post

Justin Trudeau was against Meech, against Charlottetown, he's against any recognition of the Quebec nation, and I don't think he views himself as an outsider. I'm sure he thinks of himself as a francophone, and it's also how Canada views him. I don't think he's ever questioned the modern dogmas about Canada. His father, who he admires, was after all one of the builders of the modern Canadian nation and a proponent of these dogmas. I guess we'll see, but I'm not so confident.
I am not really confident, I am just trying to think it through and consider all of the possibilities.

I guess we will find out sooner than later as with a majority (including in Quebec) he doesn't really have to hold back and can lay his cards on the table.

As for him being a francophone I suppose he considers himself a half-and-half like his father was (and therefore every bit as francophone as anyone else), although I am sure he occasionally gets reminders like this one from Dany Turcotte:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuOmp9OXa_M

Of course, being francophone doesn't necessarily guarantee that a politician will be open to and sensitive to Quebec's distinctiveness. Brian Mulroney was arguably better than Jean Chrétien on this front.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:32 PM
 
261 posts, read 275,600 times
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
He was very sensitive about never giving any credibility to the independence movement.
Although interestingly, in Claude Cardinal's recent book Une histoire du RIN, it's mentioned that Trudeau was present at the inauguration of the Rassemblement pour l'indépendance nationale (RIN)'s first permanent office, on January 19th, 1962. He was invited and he actually did come. I really enjoyed the book, it was full of interesting and often surprising facts.
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