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Old 10-20-2015, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,959 posts, read 27,383,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I would imagine a woman, any woman, who wanted to be a police officer, to be a very independent kind of woman. I would imagine a woman wanting to be a teacher, to value education, and to have put personal thought into her decision to wear a niqab. I imagine the women who might be forced to wear a face covering to be hardly ever out of their homes.
Could be, but the other possibility is that there is a "vanguard" that is small in number that is allowed for the good of the cause to seek out these positions and appear to be liberated and have total freedom of choice. These women are usually well-spoken, and well-versed in law. Usually they speak with the accent of the "host" country. With the ultimate goal of convincing us that the niqab (for example) isn't really related to the subjugation of women in any way.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,959 posts, read 27,383,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
Please don't be scared of us. I know the media gives us a bad rep, but most of us are decent people like you.

Anyway, even if you don't like us, Muslims are a TINY minority in the US, and I imagine the same is true in Canada. So even if the Muslim population in Canada increases, it will still be really small.
I am not afraid of anyone. But Islam is the fastest growing religion in Canada and often the fastest growing religion in most western countries. Also more conservative and orthodox Islam (like the people who pull their kids out of public schools and stage angry protests in Toronto over mandatory sex ed) is on the rise in Canada as are the number of requests for "exemptions" to conform with Islamic values, beliefs and practices.

The numbers are small right now but it may be different in 10 or 20 years from now. A Canada (and indeed, a "western world") that is quite a bit more conservatively religious than today is definitely a possibility. But not because of Christianity. But because of Islam (and maybe some other religions too).

Note that I am not anti-Muslim. I have a number of friends who are Muslim. Mostly from North Africa and also from Lebanon. Not so many from places like South Asia (Pakistan, India) or from the Arabian peninsula.

All of them are anti-niqab and even a few of them are anti-hijab. At least for their wives and daughters they are.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Montreal
579 posts, read 469,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
Please don't be scared of us. I know the media gives us a bad rep, but most of us are decent people like you.

Anyway, even if you don't like us, Muslims are a TINY minority in the US, and I imagine the same is true in Canada. So even if the Muslim population in Canada increases, it will still be really small.
I knew not all Muslims were the same.

Japan is the most Islamophobic country in the industrialized world, and that, despite not keeping track of religions at all. If Islam is poorly understood, then Canada could become just as Islamophobic as Japan especially if any Islam-caused tensions (themselves caused by radical, orthodox Muslims, which are far from the majority of Muslims) spread like wildfire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Could be, but the other possibility is that there is a "vanguard" that is small in number that is allowed for the good of the cause to seek out these positions and appear to be liberated and have total freedom of choice. These women are usually well-spoken, and well-versed in law. Usually they speak with the accent of the "host" country. With the ultimate goal of convincing us that the niqab (for example) isn't really related to the subjugation of women in any way.
Ideally niqabs are cultural or sanitation garb...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am not afraid of anyone. But Islam is the fastest growing religion in Canada and often the fastest growing religion in most western countries. Also more conservative and orthodox Islam (like the people who pull their kids out of public schools and stage angry protests in Toronto over mandatory sex ed) is on the rise in Canada as are the number of requests for "exemptions" to conform with Islamic values, beliefs and practices.

The numbers are small right now but it may be different in 10 or 20 years from now. A Canada (and indeed, a "western world") that is quite a bit more conservatively religious than today is definitely a possibility. But not because of Christianity. But because of Islam (and maybe some other religions too).
That is going to be the greatest challenge to multiculturalism, the very item Canada has worked so hard for decades to make it fully functional...

Last edited by Yvanung; 10-20-2015 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,959 posts, read 27,383,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvanung View Post


That is going to be the greatest challenge to multiculturalism, the very item Canada has worked so hard for decades to make it fully functional...
What's ironic is that after shaking off the influence of the more orthodox, conservative and prescriptive aspects of Christianity on our society, some of this might actually come back in Canada but via different religions like Islam, Judaism, etc.

And one spin-off of this we are already seeing is how conservative Christians in Canada are starting to get more assertive and vocal as well. They see what other religious groups are doing and are saying "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

I am not 100% sure but I betcha that in 20 years Canada is a more overtly religious country than it is today.

Who could have predicted that 10 or 20 years ago?

Last edited by Acajack; 10-20-2015 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,273 posts, read 6,600,948 times
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I wouldn't have predicted it 10 or 20 years ago and I would not predict it now for the future. I think it will be the exact opposite with Canadians, including the religious ones, becoming more private and even more resistant to the influence of various religions than what it is now.

.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,959 posts, read 27,383,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I wouldn't have predicted it 10 or 20 years ago and I would not predict it now for the future. I think it will be the exact opposite with Canadians, including the religious ones, becoming more private and even more resistant to the influence of various religions than what it is now.

.
I hope you're right but I dunno...
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,602 posts, read 11,093,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I hope you're right but I dunno...
I agree with Acajack. It's the backlash on tolerance/refusal to accept hate. People will become more vocal and demand equal "protection" under the ever growing tent of special interests that feel persecuted. Concrete evidence of wrongoing isn't always required. Peoples feelings are getting equal footing beside evidence.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
10,907 posts, read 23,199,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am not afraid of anyone. But Islam is the fastest growing religion in Canada and often the fastest growing religion in most western countries. Also more conservative and orthodox Islam (like the people who pull their kids out of public schools and stage angry protests in Toronto over mandatory sex ed) is on the rise in Canada as are the number of requests for "exemptions" to conform with Islamic values, beliefs and practices.

The numbers are small right now but it may be different in 10 or 20 years from now. A Canada (and indeed, a "western world") that is quite a bit more conservatively religious than today is definitely a possibility. But not because of Christianity. But because of Islam (and maybe some other religions too).

Note that I am not anti-Muslim. I have a number of friends who are Muslim. Mostly from North Africa and also from Lebanon. Not so many from places like South Asia (Pakistan, India) or from the Arabian peninsula.

All of them are anti-niqab and even a few of them are anti-hijab. At least for their wives and daughters they are.
Canda by a whole is becoming less Religious or more Canadians are becoming Irreligious than again I myself am a Secular humanist/Atheist.

Irreligion is common throughout all provinces and territories of Canada. Irreligious Canadians include atheists, agnostics, and humanists.

The surveys may also include those who are deists, spiritual and pantheists. The 2011 Canadian census reported that 23.9% of Canadians declare no religious affiliation.

According to Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance, among those estimated 4.9 million Canadians of no religion, an estimated 1.9 million would specify atheist, 1.8 would specify agnostic, and 1.2 humanist.

In 2011, a survey conducted by Ipsos-Reid showed that 47% of the Canadian population believed religion does more harm in the world than good, while 64% believed that religion provides more questions than answers.

A 2008 Canadian Press Harris-Decima telephone survey of just over 1,000 Canadians found 23% were willing to state they do not believe in any god.

The Canadian Ipsos-Reid poll released September 12, 2011 entitled "Canadians Split On Whether Religion Does More Harm in the World than Good," sampled 1,129 Canadian adults and came up with 30% who do not believe in a god.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Canada

Religion in Canada encompasses a wide range of groups and beliefs.

The majority of Canadians are Christians, with the Catholic Church having the most adherents. Christians, representing 67.3% of the population, are followed by people with no religion with 23.9%.

Islam is the second largest religion in Canada, practised by 3.2% of the population. Rates of religious adherence are steadily decreasing.

The preamble to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms refers to God and the monarch carries the title of "Defender of the Faith". However, Canada has no official religion, and support for religious pluralism and freedom of religion is an important part of Canada's political culture.


Before the European colonization Aboriginal religions were largely animistic, including an intense reverence for spirits and nature.

The French colonization beginning in the 17th century established a Roman Catholic francophone population in Acadia and in New France later Lower Canada, now Nova Scotia and Quebec. It has been followed by a British colonization that brought Anglicans and other Protestants to Upper Canada, now Ontario.

With Christianity in decline after having once been central and integral to Canadian culture and daily life, Canada has become a post-Christian, secular state.

The majority of Canadians consider religion to be unimportant in their daily lives, but still believe in God.

The practice of religion is now generally considered a private matter throughout society and the state.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Canada

Last edited by GTOlover; 10-20-2015 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,959 posts, read 27,383,424 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOlover View Post
Canda by a whole is becoming less Religious or more Canadians are becoming Irreligious than again I myself am a Secular humanist/Atheist.

Irreligion is common throughout all provinces and territories of Canada. Irreligious Canadians include atheists, agnostics, and humanists.

The surveys may also include those who are deists, spiritual and pantheists. The 2011 Canadian census reported that 23.9% of Canadians declare no religious affiliation.

According to Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance, among those estimated 4.9 million Canadians of no religion, an estimated 1.9 million would specify atheist, 1.8 would specify agnostic, and 1.2 humanist.

In 2011, a survey conducted by Ipsos-Reid showed that 47% of the Canadian population believed religion does more harm in the world than good, while 64% believed that religion provides more questions than answers.

A 2008 Canadian Press Harris-Decima telephone survey of just over 1,000 Canadians found 23% were willing to state they do not believe in any god.

The Canadian Ipsos-Reid poll released September 12, 2011 entitled "Canadians Split On Whether Religion Does More Harm in the World than Good," sampled 1,129 Canadian adults and came up with 30% who do not believe in a god.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Canada

Religion in Canada encompasses a wide range of groups and beliefs.

The majority of Canadians are Christians, with the Catholic Church having the most adherents. Christians, representing 67.3% of the population, are followed by people with no religion with 23.9%.

Islam is the second largest religion in Canada, practised by 3.2% of the population. Rates of religious adherence are steadily decreasing.

The preamble to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms refers to God and the monarch carries the title of "Defender of the Faith". However, Canada has no official religion, and support for religious pluralism and freedom of religion is an important part of Canada's political culture.


Before the European colonization Aboriginal religions were largely animistic, including an intense reverence for spirits and nature.

The French colonization beginning in the 17th century established a Roman Catholic francophone population in Acadia and in New France later Lower Canada, now Nova Scotia and Quebec. It has been followed by a British colonization that brought Anglicans and other Protestants to Upper Canada, now Ontario.

With Christianity in decline after having once been central and integral to Canadian culture and daily life, Canada has become a post-Christian, secular state.

The majority of Canadians consider religion to be unimportant in their daily lives, but still believe in God.

The practice of religion is now generally considered a private matter throughout society and the state.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Canada
What I see possibly happening is a large chunk of irreligious Canadians alongside another chunk of religious Canadians but who are increasingly devout.
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,552 posts, read 9,429,171 times
Reputation: 6718
Is there any neighbor(u)rhood in any Canadian city where you are likely to find Muslim women who are "covered up"?
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