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There is racism everywhere in the world. The degree and nature may differ but it's there everywhere.
One difference I notice between Quebec and the rest of the country is that people in Quebec are so used to be accused of being racists that their usual default reply is that they are no worse than any other people. And that they are trying to improve things.
On the other hand it is much more common to hear people in Anglo-Canada make the ''zero racism" claim about their society.
This is what I was trying to get at.
There are racists everywhere. And I find there is a tendency in Canada to point fingers. Usually English at French. Not just a Quebec issue. Happens outside of Quebec as well.
It even gets dangerous at times.
On Prince Edward Island, there was a dude from Congo who got fired from his teaching job because he was accused of making sexual advances on a student.
The result was a human rights case saying the French language school board was racist. He won the case and got a job in the English language board later.
What happened in the English school?
He actually sexually assaulted a kid.
He's in jail now. But yeah, when the French board raised the red flags, they were racist. When the English board reports the same behaviour, the scumbag is in jail where he belongs.
But the sad part of the story is two kids got sexually assaulted. Simply because adults want to show they're better than eachother.
Could have been just one. Or preferably, none. But the fingerpointing between English and French got in the way of that.
There are racists everywhere. And I find there is a tendency in Canada to point fingers. Usually English at French. Not just a Quebec issue. Happens outside of Quebec as well.
It even gets dangerous at times.
On Prince Edward Island, there was a dude from Congo who got fired from his teaching job because he was accused of making sexual advances on a student.
The result was a human rights case saying the French language school board was racist. He won the case and got a job in the English language board later.
What happened in the English school?
He actually sexually assaulted a kid.
He's in jail now. But yeah, when the French board raised the red flags, they were racist. When the English board reports the same behaviour, the scumbag is in jail where he belongs.
But the sad part of the story is two kids got sexually assaulted. Simply because adults want to show they're better than eachother.
Could have been just one. Or preferably, none. But the fingerpointing between English and French got in the way of that.
Sad really.
You're doing it again. The "English" against the French shpiel. Who are the "English" you refer to? This isn't 1955, when the country was 99% white, and the population was overwhelmingly of British or French origin. You are aware that Canada has evolved from that, and that there are parts of Canada that couldn't be more different from that stark English vs French duality?
If by "English" you mean English-speaking, then okay, because the ROC is obviously "English-speaking." Officially, that is. The reality is that you can, and will, hear dozens of languages spoken on any given day in a place like Toronto, for example. It is an immigrant city and has been for decades. Those immigrants retain their languages and their cultures for at least a couple of generations.
As a kid growing up in Hamilton, Ontario, which isn't quite as diverse as Toronto, at least half of my friends had immigrant parents, as I did. And most of them were NOT British. The European families alone were a part of the large German, Italian, Portuguese, Greek, Polish, Russian/Ukrainian communities. Then, of course, there were the Asian, Latin, Caribbean, and Middle Eastern immigrant groups that began to arrive in much greater numbers sometime in the 80s/early 90s.
Of course my friends all spoke English. But many of their parents did not. Some speak little English today, after decades in the country, and many still struggle with written English. Their children have either always translated for them or spoken their first language with their parents to facilitate communication. Those friends, though, retain their languages and identify strongly with their familial cultures.
That was my reality in southern Ontario. So, again, who are these "English" you refer to? I hope you're not still arguing that it's all "Anglos" who (unfairly) criticize Quebec for a variety of reasons, including its supposed overt racism. Perhaps that traditional Anglo (English)/French binary culture has been YOUR experience where you've lived, but it certainly is not the experience of many more of us who grew up in the ROC.
Once again, let me assure you that a large number of Canadians who participate in Quebec bashing are NOT Anglo.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 12-19-2015 at 02:22 PM..
You're doing it again. The "English" against the French shpiel. Who are the "English" you refer to? This isn't 1955, when the country was 99% white, and the population was overwhelmingly of British or French origin. You are aware that Canada has evolved from that, and that there are parts of Canada that couldn't be more different from that stark English vs French duality?
If by "English" you mean English-speaking, then okay, because the ROC is obviously "English-speaking." Officially, that is. The reality is that you can, and will, hear dozens of languages spoken on any given day in a place like Toronto, for example. It is an immigrant city and has been for decades. Those immigrants retain their languages and their cultures for at least a couple of generations.
As a kid growing up in Hamilton, Ontario, which isn't quite as diverse as Toronto, at least half of my friends had immigrant parents, as I did. And most of them were NOT British. The European families alone were a part of the large German, Italian, Portuguese, Greek, Polish, Russian/Ukrainian communities. Then, of course, there were the Asian, Latin, Caribbean, and Middle Eastern immigrant groups that began to arrive in much greater numbers sometime in the 80s/early 90s.
Of course my friends all spoke English. But many of their parents did not. Some speak little English today, after decades in the country, and many still struggle with written English. Their children have either always translated for them or spoken their first language with their parents to facilitate communication. Those friends, though, retain their languages and identify strongly with their familial cultures.
That was my reality in southern Ontario. So, again, who are these "English" you refer to? I hope you're not still arguing that it's all "Anglos" who (unfairly) criticize Quebec for a variety of reasons, including its supposed overt racism. Perhaps that traditional Anglo (English)/French binary culture has been YOUR experience where you've lived, but it certainly is not the experience of many more of us who grew up in the ROC.
Once again, let me assure you that a large number of Canadians who participate in Quebec bashing are NOT Anglo.
I use "English" and "Anglo" to refer to all those groups who have integrated into Anglo Canadian culture and adopted their mindset.
French Canadians also come from a variety of ancestries, BTW. I have a Nordic last name, part of my family coming from the Faroe Islands.
My surname and accent means I hear what a lot of them think, because they don't know.
Anyway, it's not just on racism... that comes from folks on the left.
On the right the accusations are that French Canadians are to blame for high taxes and multiculturalism. Which is the opposite of blaming us for racism.
They miss the point that there is support for all of that in all cultures.
I use "English" and "Anglo" to refer to all those groups who have integrated into Anglo Canadian culture and adopted their mindset.
French Canadians also come from a variety of ancestries, BTW. I have a Nordic last name, part of my family coming from the Faroe Islands.
My surname and accent means I hear what a lot of them think, because they don't know.
Anyway, it's not just on racism... that comes from folks on the left.
On the right the accusations are that French Canadians are to blame for high taxes and multiculturalism. Which is the opposite of blaming us for racism.
They miss the point that there is support for all of that in all cultures.
The thread title is calculated to stimulate controversy as it assumes Quebec gets a free pass on any expressed racism.
My age and experience would be that is not the case. Any time there has been a case of definitive racism solely emanating from Quebec it gets attention very quickly. That has been my observation for a few decades at least.
As to the ROC; the same holds true today. There are far too many ethnic cultures well versed in exercising their rights under the charter to allow overt racism to go on for very long before observers shine the media light on them. This is a good thing because the older generation, who were perhaps masters at it, are fading away and the newer gen is fully aware of the dangers inherent.
Racism is not based on language. Racism is based on race.
Thus, Negroes (black skin, thick lips, short curly black hair) are a different race from Eastern Asians (black hair, lack of an eye flap, white skin), which are different from South Asians (brown skin, black hair), which are different from Caucasians (white skin, brown or blue eyes, blonde or brown or red hair.) Semitics from Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon, tend to have large noses and black hair. All are different from Native Americans (Asian eyes, black hair, but slightly red skin). These are races. They speak many languages.
"Quebecois" and "Francophone" is not a race. Language may identify a group, such as the Basques of Spain, or the Hasidic Jews in New York City. But as this identification is based on language and culture, it is not a race. The Basques are undoubtedly Caucasian, the Hasidic Jews are Semitic, and Quebecois are ultimately Caucasian. Just like Canadian Anglos.
Be careful where you toss that "racism" accusation: it just might come back to bite you.
Racism is not based on language. Racism is based on race.
Thus, Negroes (black skin, thick lips, short curly black hair) are a different race from Eastern Asians (black hair, lack of an eye flap, white skin), which are different from South Asians (brown skin, black hair), which are different from Caucasians (white skin, brown or blue eyes, blonde or brown or red hair.) Semitics from Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon, tend to have large noses and black hair. All are different from Native Americans (Asian eyes, black hair, but slightly red skin). These are races. They speak many languages.
"Quebecois" and "Francophone" is not a race. Language may identify a group, such as the Basques of Spain, or the Hasidic Jews in New York City. But as this identification is based on language and culture, it is not a race. The Basques are undoubtedly Caucasian, the Hasidic Jews are Semitic, and Quebecois are ultimately Caucasian. Just like Canadian Anglos.
Be careful where you toss that "racism" accusation: it just might come back to bite you.
All true.
As a result, I guess the most commonly hurled racism allegation in Canada, that Quebec is racist because it tries to restrict the spread of English as a common language in the province, is totally invalid.
As a result, I guess the most commonly hurled racism allegation in Canada, that Quebec is racist because it tries to restrict the spread of English as a common language in the province, is totally invalid.
No, not invalid at all. Just the product of stupid people.
Quebec is not racist when it states that the English language is not welcome in the Quebec province. Quebec still welcomes Caucasians, Negroes, East Asians, South Asians, and Semitics, of all languages. All Quebec asks these people to do is speak French in Quebec. Nothing to do with race.
I'd suggest that ignorant voices in Anglo-Canada see Quebec's view as "racist," and they do so wrongly. Somewhat similarly, certain ignorant Quebecois voices see Anglo-Canada's views as "racist." These voices, as I see things, are wrong. Racism is based on race, not language.
Does Quebec's continued use of the Notwithstanding Clause to opt out of Charter s. 2(b) (freedom of thought, belief, and expression) upset many of us in the RoC? Yes. But this has nothing to do with race, and Quebec's use of s. 33 has nothing to do with race.
If "racism" allegations are hurled from Anglo-Canada at Quebec, then ignore them. The members of the RoC who complain obviously don't know what they're speaking about.
No, not invalid at all. Just the product of stupid people.
Quebec is not racist when it states that the English language is not welcome in the Quebec province. Quebec still welcomes Caucasians, Negroes, East Asians, South Asians, and Semitics, of all languages. All Quebec asks these people to do is speak French in Quebec. Nothing to do with race.
I'd suggest that ignorant voices in Anglo-Canada see Quebec's view as "racist," and they do so wrongly. Somewhat similarly, certain ignorant Quebecois voices see Anglo-Canada's views as "racist." These voices, as I see things, are wrong. Racism is based on race, not language.
Does Quebec's continued use of the Notwithstanding Clause to opt out of Charter s. 2(b) (freedom of thought, belief, and expression) upset many of us in the RoC? Yes. But this has nothing to do with race, and Quebec's use of s. 33 has nothing to do with race.
If "racism" allegations are hurled from Anglo-Canada at Quebec, then ignore them. The members of the RoC who complain obviously don't know what they're speaking about.
I agree with your post but I don't believe anything in Quebec's language policies or laws at the moment is upheld due to the use of the Notwithstanding Clause. And they haven't been for quite some time.
Everything in place in Quebec at the moment is consistent with reasonably recent (10-15 years? not 100% sure) Supreme Court rulings on their constitutionality. So either the SCC ruled such and such a provision was OK, or Quebec tweaked its laws to make them consistent with what the SCC said.
Is it thruth that Quebek takes immigrants with much less requerements as the rest of Canada ? And why is it so ? Maybe I should start learning french instead english ? Are english states more racist against immigrants from east europe as Quebeck ? Or do they just dont need us becose or our white skeen color ?
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