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Old 01-23-2016, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Halifax, NS
225 posts, read 147,506 times
Reputation: 156

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I find it really disconcerting when I travel outside of my little social media bubble and surf onto other websites and see so many foreigners, mostly European and Israeli, bashing Canada in comments sections because of our stance on Syrian refugees... that they're actually human and deserve safety.

That that is grounds to bash a whole nation says something about the world.

Say what you say about the US with that crazy man Donald Trump, their election is Bernie vs Hillary, no Republican will win. Americans aren't crazy. Over the top, but not crazy. The GOP primary is a comical side show at best.

Europe is the part of the world we gotta worry about. They're damn near in genocide mode.

And then Israelis cheer them on. Considering what Jews went through at the hands of Europeans they should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm finally proud to be Canadian after 10 years of being embarassed so I'm not taking it sitting down. It pisses me off.

/rant
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:06 AM
 
449 posts, read 278,940 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
I agree that if Canada must take in refugees then its better we take in families and not too many single men who obviously are the biggest problem group as we've clearly seen already in Germany and all over Europe.

Having said that, look at the part I highlighted in your quote. We have to make ALOT OF EFFORT to integrate them so as to ensure that they don't end up creating ghettos where violence, crime and terrorism can startup and grow. That right there is why bringing in Muslims is a BAD IDEA because from the very beginning you have to take so many measures to make sure you're not bringing in bad people and then making sure they don't turn bad once they get here. Just look at how much effort and energy is needed to integrate these people and even then there are no guarantees.

Constrast that to bringing in asians or other non-Muslims and the energy required to integrate them is MUCH LESS and the chances of them becoming a danger to the people of the country that took them in is EXTREMELY LOW. So tell me again why we need these Syrian refugees so badly that we're allowing them to hop the line right to the front past everyone else applying to live here? What makes them so special above everyone else? I sure as hell can't think of anything.





Again its comments like these which is why Canada and every other western nation DOES NOT need more Muslims. Look at how we're already bending over backwards to help these people and trying so hard to make them feel welcome and HOPE that they won't get angry at us and turn on us someday. Hell even if we do everything right its still no guarantee that some portion of them won't become terrorists or criminals someday.

This is why I'm against taking more Muslims into western nations. Because no matter what you do, YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WITH THEM. You can do seemingly everything to appease them but still there's always a chance that a few of them will randomly turn on you for whatever reason. Why should Canadians have to deal with something like this where before many Muslims came here, no such threat existed? 20 years ago I doubt any Canadians were concerned much with Muslim terrorism happening in Canada, but now there's about a million of them here, its become a genuine threat that's large enough that we have to spend significant resources in tracking people and protecting ourselves against them.

I seriously doubt places like South Korea and Japan have to worry this much about Muslims when they allow so very few to settle in their nations. And its funny how its OK for these two rich nations to be intolerant and firm in not taking in refugees and not be constantly criticised for it, yet any western nation that does the same in the name of preserving their countries is IMMEDIATELY criticised endlessly and without remorse. Can anyone tell me why its OK for the Japanese and South Koreans to say NO in the name of preserving their culture and protecting their nation, yet we can't do the same?



You'd be wrong about most Canadians supporting bringing in these refugees to Canada and especially in the super short timeline that the Liberals have set. The problem is those who oppose bringing them here can't say so in public without being branded 'racists' and 'Islamophobes' etc. Basically anyone who doesn't think landing literally an army's worth of Muslims into our country in a few short months is a good idea is shamed and bullied into either changing their minds or remaining silent while we allow this stupidity to happen.

So much for 'freedom of speech' because when it comes to Muslims (and blacks for that matter) its seems they're above criticism and questioning. If you don't allow them into your country, you're 'intolerant' rather than simply being LOGICAL AND SENSIBLE in thinking that allowing so many people into your nation in such a short period of time especially when we're talking about Muslims IS A BAD IDEA.
As a Muslim, the first thing I thought when I read your post was... Ouch.

To be frank, the VAST majority of us really don't give a care about whatever religion (if any) you practice. We simply have better things to do and more important issues to worry about.

The media likes to blow things out of proportion. Yes, there are ISIS Muslims, but there are also Zionists and abortion-center-bombing Christians. On the flip-side, there are good people of all religions as well, Islam included. The refugees (who are not all Muslim BTW) need to be accepted, not because they're "special" or "above everyone else", but because they're in a desperate situation, and humans help other humans.

With all due respect, it is neither logical nor sensible to paint so many people with the same brush.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, BTW. I just wanted to clear up some common misconceptions, and I sincerely hope you rethink your stance on this issue.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:01 AM
 
Location: Halifax, NS
225 posts, read 147,506 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
As a Muslim, the first thing I thought when I read your post was... Ouch.

To be frank, the VAST majority of us really don't give a care about whatever religion (if any) you practice. We simply have better things to do and more important issues to worry about.

The media likes to blow things out of proportion. Yes, there are ISIS Muslims, but there are also Zionists and abortion-center-bombing Christians. On the flip-side, there are good people of all religions as well, Islam included. The refugees (who are not all Muslim BTW) need to be accepted, not because they're "special" or "above everyone else", but because they're in a desperate situation, and humans help other humans.

With all due respect, it is neither logical nor sensible to paint so many people with the same brush.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, BTW. I just wanted to clear up some common misconceptions, and I sincerely hope you rethink your stance on this issue.
The problem is that propaganda has been allowed to spread unquestioned for so many years. It is getting to a head now. People who aren't normally hateful have internalized it and believe it. It's been spread around that Muslims are by nature violent and want to destroy and take over the world. I don't understand how people don't question it.

I usually am not the type of person to get worked up about stuff on the news, but I dunno, the treatment of Syrian refugees just thoroughly disgusts and scares me.

I wish this whole neocon era would just end.

Funny thing is, some of the most fervent anti-Islam types, well, they are exactly like they accuse all Muslims of being, and they're violent. They are like ISIL pretty much... and that is what ISIS wants, to claim that Western civilization and Islam are at war... so acting this was people are playing into ISIL's hands.
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,689 posts, read 6,532,688 times
Reputation: 8188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
I agree that if Canada must take in refugees then its better we take in families and not too many single men who obviously are the biggest problem group as we've clearly seen already in Germany and all over Europe.

Having said that, look at the part I highlighted in your quote. We have to make ALOT OF EFFORT to integrate them so as to ensure that they don't end up creating ghettos where violence, crime and terrorism can startup and grow. That right there is why bringing in Muslims is a BAD IDEA because from the very beginning you have to take so many measures to make sure you're not bringing in bad people and then making sure they don't turn bad once they get here. Just look at how much effort and energy is needed to integrate these people and even then there are no guarantees.

Constrast that to bringing in asians or other non-Muslims and the energy required to integrate them is MUCH LESS and the chances of them becoming a danger to the people of the country that took them in is EXTREMELY LOW. So tell me again why we need these Syrian refugees so badly that we're allowing them to hop the line right to the front past everyone else applying to live here? What makes them so special above everyone else? I sure as hell can't think of anything.





Again its comments like these which is why Canada and every other western nation DOES NOT need more Muslims. Look at how we're already bending over backwards to help these people and trying so hard to make them feel welcome and HOPE that they won't get angry at us and turn on us someday. Hell even if we do everything right its still no guarantee that some portion of them won't become terrorists or criminals someday.

This is why I'm against taking more Muslims into western nations. Because no matter what you do, YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WITH THEM. You can do seemingly everything to appease them but still there's always a chance that a few of them will randomly turn on you for whatever reason. Why should Canadians have to deal with something like this where before many Muslims came here, no such threat existed? 20 years ago I doubt any Canadians were concerned much with Muslim terrorism happening in Canada, but now there's about a million of them here, its become a genuine threat that's large enough that we have to spend significant resources in tracking people and protecting ourselves against them.

I seriously doubt places like South Korea and Japan have to worry this much about Muslims when they allow so very few to settle in their nations. And its funny how its OK for these two rich nations to be intolerant and firm in not taking in refugees and not be constantly criticised for it, yet any western nation that does the same in the name of preserving their countries is IMMEDIATELY criticised endlessly and without remorse. Can anyone tell me why its OK for the Japanese and South Koreans to say NO in the name of preserving their culture and protecting their nation, yet we can't do the same?



You'd be wrong about most Canadians supporting bringing in these refugees to Canada and especially in the super short timeline that the Liberals have set. The problem is those who oppose bringing them here can't say so in public without being branded 'racists' and 'Islamophobes' etc. Basically anyone who doesn't think landing literally an army's worth of Muslims into our country in a few short months is a good idea is shamed and bullied into either changing their minds or remaining silent while we allow this stupidity to happen.

So much for 'freedom of speech' because when it comes to Muslims (and blacks for that matter) its seems they're above criticism and questioning. If you don't allow them into your country, you're 'intolerant' rather than simply being LOGICAL AND SENSIBLE in thinking that allowing so many people into your nation in such a short period of time especially when we're talking about Muslims IS A BAD IDEA.
This is so 1900s. No different than what Canadians had to say about the Germans, the Mennonites or the Chinese.

You ARE exercising your freedom of speech in this post. Freedom of speech doesn't mean people can't question your logic.
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:53 AM
 
18,262 posts, read 10,360,166 times
Reputation: 13314
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
This is so 1900s. No different than what Canadians had to say about the Germans, the Mennonites or the Chinese.

You ARE exercising your freedom of speech in this post. Freedom of speech doesn't mean people can't question your logic.
That's the thing with the advancement of "sword" technology.....the best of them are 'double edged'.

We've accepted refugees/immigrants from any number of places some would simply close the gates to and the world didn't tilt on it's axis and we do not have beheadings happening in the streets.

I think all of us would be quite happy to accept people from wherever, as long as a reasonable and effective effort were expended to ascertain their suitability.

I've worked for many years with Muslim co-workers and never once had the occasion to worry about their motivations regarding their religious beliefs any more than I would have worried about the "Christian" guy down the street, in years past, that forbade his children from watching TV or playing with other children from the neighbourhood.

Plenty of people have given me 'cause for pause' over my 70 years of living but the Muslim acquaintances have not once been a source of doubt or concern.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Halifax, NS
225 posts, read 147,506 times
Reputation: 156
Exactly. And I have never been threatened by a Muslim but have been by many crazy ass white men who subscribe to far right ideology and think all Muslims are violent.

For trivial reasons too.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,670 posts, read 8,737,253 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
I agree that if Canada must take in refugees then its better we take in families and not too many single men who obviously are the biggest problem group as we've clearly seen already in Germany and all over Europe.

Having said that, look at the part I highlighted in your quote. We have to make ALOT OF EFFORT to integrate them so as to ensure that they don't end up creating ghettos where violence, crime and terrorism can startup and grow. That right there is why bringing in Muslims is a BAD IDEA because from the very beginning you have to take so many measures to make sure you're not bringing in bad people and then making sure they don't turn bad once they get here. Just look at how much effort and energy is needed to integrate these people and even then there are no guarantees.

Constrast that to bringing in asians or other non-Muslims and the energy required to integrate them is MUCH LESS and the chances of them becoming a danger to the people of the country that took them in is EXTREMELY LOW. So tell me again why we need these Syrian refugees so badly that we're allowing them to hop the line right to the front past everyone else applying to live here? What makes them so special above everyone else? I sure as hell can't think of anything.





Again its comments like these which is why Canada and every other western nation DOES NOT need more Muslims. Look at how we're already bending over backwards to help these people and trying so hard to make them feel welcome and HOPE that they won't get angry at us and turn on us someday. Hell even if we do everything right its still no guarantee that some portion of them won't become terrorists or criminals someday.

This is why I'm against taking more Muslims into western nations. Because no matter what you do, YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WITH THEM. You can do seemingly everything to appease them but still there's always a chance that a few of them will randomly turn on you for whatever reason. Why should Canadians have to deal with something like this where before many Muslims came here, no such threat existed? 20 years ago I doubt any Canadians were concerned much with Muslim terrorism happening in Canada, but now there's about a million of them here, its become a genuine threat that's large enough that we have to spend significant resources in tracking people and protecting ourselves against them.

I seriously doubt places like South Korea and Japan have to worry this much about Muslims when they allow so very few to settle in their nations. And its funny how its OK for these two rich nations to be intolerant and firm in not taking in refugees and not be constantly criticised for it, yet any western nation that does the same in the name of preserving their countries is IMMEDIATELY criticised endlessly and without remorse. Can anyone tell me why its OK for the Japanese and South Koreans to say NO in the name of preserving their culture and protecting their nation, yet we can't do the same?



You'd be wrong about most Canadians supporting bringing in these refugees to Canada and especially in the super short timeline that the Liberals have set. The problem is those who oppose bringing them here can't say so in public without being branded 'racists' and 'Islamophobes' etc. Basically anyone who doesn't think landing literally an army's worth of Muslims into our country in a few short months is a good idea is shamed and bullied into either changing their minds or remaining silent while we allow this stupidity to happen.

So much for 'freedom of speech' because when it comes to Muslims (and blacks for that matter) its seems they're above criticism and questioning. If you don't allow them into your country, you're 'intolerant' rather than simply being LOGICAL AND SENSIBLE in thinking that allowing so many people into your nation in such a short period of time especially when we're talking about Muslims IS A BAD IDEA
.
Well I'm certainly going by my experience in this regard. The people I know, family and friends, that I have spoken to about this all support bringing Syrian refugees in.
The community leaders etc all seem to support this as well, local churches, and on and on.
Of course it's totally unscientific and I really have no way of knowing actual numbers of support, I'll give you that.
However, conversely that means you can't possibly know how many Canadians oppose this. I do know this though, Canadians aren't afraid of voicing opinions and there has been some coverage of those that oppose, but the numbers seem very low.
As for Muslims being a bad idea, well, how can one respond to that. It's hard to argue with someone who can paint 1.6 billion people with one brush.

Last edited by Natnasci; 01-24-2016 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:33 PM
 
1,068 posts, read 735,315 times
Reputation: 1025
Interesting posts, and no if you object to Islam ( untangling good/bad Islamic virtues/ habits, viewing women as second class citizens is part of the norm) does not make you as bad as ISIS, that was a crass post in bad taste, especially those who have died at their hands. Canada seems so different to posters from America, and is coming across as the Germany of North America.
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:25 PM
 
449 posts, read 278,940 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by England Dan View Post
Interesting posts, and no if you object to Islam ( untangling good/bad Islamic virtues/ habits, viewing women as second class citizens is part of the norm) does not make you as bad as ISIS, that was a crass post in bad taste, especially those who have died at their hands. Canada seems so different to posters from America, and is coming across as the Germany of North America.
Islam does NOT view women as second-class citizens. We may be viewed as different from men in certain ways, but definitely equal. I know quite a few fellow Muslim women, and none of us feel oppressed; the men at my mosque are respectful towards us. It is true that countries like Saudi Arabia are known for being bad in terms of gender equality (and even then, my mom used to live there and talks quite fondly about it), but not all Muslim-majority countries are the same. I've been to Turkey, for example, and it's lovely there for both men and women.

You probably have not studied Islam, don't know any Muslims, and have never been in a mosque, so you don't actually know what Islam is about or what Muslims are like. It's these misconceptions and their perpetuation that feed Islamophobia, and thus the further alienation of Muslims, which is exactly what ISIS wants. People of different backgrounds and religions need to engage with and try to understand each other. In doing so, society will become more united and ISIS will fail.

So if you ever pass by a mosque, I suggest you visit it so that you can see what we're really like (spoiler alert: we're pretty much the same as everyone else :P). As scary as it sounds, I'm sure they'd welcome you; I know mine would.
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,689 posts, read 6,532,688 times
Reputation: 8188
Not to mention the fact that there are many Christians who have what until recently would be considered 'traditional' views of men and women. It is hardly out of the ordinary for cultures to put men and women in different roles. And given how far Canada has yet to go in terms of women getting the same pay for the same work as men, I have no idea why anyone would think gender inequality is limited to Islam.
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