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Interesting that he's pitching regular-speed rail rather than high-speed. It'd basically be an all-day trip, so still no great deal compared to flying. Maybe some seats would be less expensive than flying, but in looking at ticket cost vs. time "cost"... business travellers would still probably choose to fly.
Interesting that he's pitching regular-speed rail rather than high-speed. It'd basically be an all-day trip, so still no great deal compared to flying. Maybe some seats would be less expensive than flying, but in looking at ticket cost vs. time "cost"... business travellers would still probably choose to fly.
Having dedicated passenger lines would improve speeds however and that would cut existing travel time down quite a bit. Not High Speed of course but quite a demonstrable improvement. There may be method to his madness... Create the dedicated lines and than push for high speed once they are in place down the road with the added benefit of increased population densities providing an expanded base.
I read that the only HS line in N.A right now has average speeds much lower than they are capable of (Acela in the BOS/NYC/DC corridor) simply because the line isn't dedicated.
I also like the idea of thinking beyond just the Windsor/Q.C corridor and expanding into the U.S - particularly the Great Lakes Megaregion...
I also like the idea of thinking beyond just the Windsor/Q.C corridor and expanding into the U.S - particularly the Great Lakes Megaregion...
I think there's a lot more room than that.
I'm surprised, for example, that there is no rail line in Alberta, between Lethbridge, Calgary, Red Deer, and Edmonton. These are the biggest cities in the province, and the only way to get between them is by bus. Oh, air service is available, but it is quite expensive, and involves changes--to go from Lethbridge to Red Deer involves a change in Calgary. (I'll ignore Integra Air for now.) Heck, to go via air from Lethbridge to Medicine Hat or Cranbrook involves a change in Calgary. Why is there no rail connecting these southern cities with each other? It would be a damn sight easier than connecting via air through Calgary always.
A rail line from Calgary to Edmonton has been contemplated and studied, but two things stand in its way: the infrastructure no longer exists (stations were repurposed when VIA stopped service), and Albertans' reluctance to look at rail as a viable means of transport. "Just add another lane to Highway 2." But Highway 2 is typically shut down by winter storms, and I well remember the scheduled three hour Calgary-Edmonton trip on the bus, that turned into seven hours because a winter storm and subsequent accidents had blocked the highway.
Rail works, when it's done right. Sadly, we seem to have forgotten how to do it right.
I also like the idea of thinking beyond just the Windsor/Q.C corridor and expanding into the U.S - particularly the Great Lakes Megaregion...
OT...kinda, but......
My neighbour keeps trying to tell me our homes would be expropriated should they bring in a high speed line thru Windsor to Detroit. I live right where the CP trains climb out of the tunnel, and and abandoned section the old CASO/NYCRR/MCR line, which used to be the main passenger line long ago, which has recently been torn up from her to Fergus, is 44m from the face of my home. This WOULD be the logical choice, as it's the most direct route to rebuild.
Not only do I think that's plenty far enough, particularly since barriers would be built. I just don't see them being allowed to do such speeds within city limits.
I also like the idea of thinking beyond just the Windsor/Q.C corridor and expanding into the U.S - particularly the Great Lakes Megaregion...
Having some train service (I don't even expect high speed train) to cities such as NYC, Boston or Chicago would be nice, I mean without several complicated interchanges. I think the population can support that and the distance is not even that long.
North America is really very backward in that, not realizing how much potential it has been missing. I would visit NYC or Chicago a lot more if such services exist and for my friends there vice versa. oh, well.
My neighbour keeps trying to tell me our homes would be expropriated should they bring in a high speed line thru Windsor to Detroit. I live right where the CP trains climb out of the tunnel, and and abandoned section the old CASO/NYCRR/MCR line, which used to be the main passenger line long ago, which has recently been torn up from her to Fergus, is 44m from the face of my home. This WOULD be the logical choice, as it's the most direct route to rebuild.
Not only do I think that's plenty far enough, particularly since barriers would be built. I just don't see them being allowed to do such speeds within city limits.
Any opinion on that?
Well i'm just thinking of a high speed network and the overall benefits. Essentially if we are going to do it, why not DO IT lol.. Let's not go half way. Lets have that high speed network and not just think things in smaller scale. Of course, I wouldn't want anyone to have their home expropriated but I don't know the local geography or challenges of every location and that is granted. If high speed did run through - can they circumvent it so it doesn't impact anyone in Windsor?
Having some train service (I don't even expect high speed train) to cities such as NYC, Boston or Chicago would be nice, I mean without several complicated interchanges. I think the population can support that and the distance is not even that long.
North America is really very backward in that, not realizing how much potential it has been missing. I would visit NYC or Chicago a lot more if such services exist and for my friends there vice versa. oh, well.
I think dedicated lines are just as important as high speed! Not sure if you are familiar with Acela but basically from what I read, even though they are high speed because they share the same lines with freight/commuter trains - avg speeds are only 35 percent of their designed speeds.
Rail works, when it's done right. Sadly, we seem to have forgotten how to do it right.
As a lifelong railroad buff and Transport Econ graduate, I sincerely wish I could agree with that assessment, but the historical record indicates otherwise.
Back in the mid-1960's Canadian National CEO Donald Gordon made an intensive effort to revive intercity passenger service, with refurbished equipment, an incentive-based fare structure -- even United Aircraft's experimental TurboTrain. Revenues spiked for a couple of years, then resumed their downward spiral, a consequence of better highways and safer and more reliable air service.
The founding and evolution of VIA post-1977 bears a strong resemblance to the American experience with Amtrak begun some six years earlier. The system was essentially a "middle-class societal benefit" built mostly around an older, and occasionally isolated segment of the population which could not drive and were still reluctant to fly -- not much in sync with Canada's long distances and a young population with a strong component of legal, contributing immigrants. The better equipment and amenities did attract a portion of the population traveling primarily for leisure in the summer months, but not enough to cover all the costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
I think dedicated lines are just as important as high speed! Not sure if you are familiar with Acela but basically from what I read, even though they are high speed because they share the same lines with freight/commuter trains - avg speeds are only 35 percent of their designed speeds.
The problem here rests primarily with the fact that rail transportation structure and policy in North America is much different from that in the rest of the world. A glance at the map of Europe reveals that most of the Continent's heavy industry is located on or near seaports, inland canals, or navigable rivers. Thus the European rail systems, most of them nationalized by 1950, always operated with passenger traffic as a first consideration -- aided by operating subsidies and a heavy tax on automobiles, motor fuel and accessories. Only the United States, Canada, China and the heirs of the former Soviet Union designed their systems primarily for freight.
The political maneuvering behind Amtrak can be traced all the way back to 1957, when an Interstate Commerce Commission investigator named Howard Hosmer predicted the demise of all intercity passenger service (with the exception of Boston-New York-Washington -- too densely settled for new highways) by 1970. (As it turned out, Mr. Hosmer was off by only a year and a half). An infusion of capital to the freight railroads in return for the "Northeast Corridor" turned out to be a winning proposition, as no other major American railroad is under public ownership, or in financial difficulties today.
Freight service, save for deliveries to lineside industrial customers, was banned from the Northeast Corridor after a very serious accident in 1989. Top speeds, as opposed to average speeds, were gradually increased from 80 MPH at the time of Amtrak's inception to 110, then 135, and finally 150 MPH -- with some "three-figure" running within the city limits of Newark -- and those speeds benefitted commuters as well. But the speeds apply only over a relatively short portion of the entire route -- curves, tunnels and drawbridges from over a century ago being the principal culprits.
If Canada wants "true" High Speed Rail service, it's technically feasible, but economically feasible only for a Quebec City-Montreal-Toronto-Hamilton-Windsor Corridor -- and there are several superfluous rail lines which can be used for an upgrade. The emerging West Coast Corridor in California will furnish some valuable lessons, but it's going to take twenty years or so to get there, and the price tag will be a lot more than $1 billion.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-25-2016 at 08:02 PM..
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