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Old 06-20-2016, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,724 posts, read 8,803,839 times
Reputation: 7331

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You *are* quite adept at mental gymnastics, my friends!


Anyway, again... you won't hear me defending these guys or asking people to be "undertstanding" towards them...
How so? Also I'm not even remotely suggesting you agree with the church.

You said that no Bishop in Canada or the US would publicly state that Homosexuality is a mortal sin.

I gave you evidence they have and do.

So I'm not understanding the " mental gymnastics " part.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,724 posts, read 8,803,839 times
Reputation: 7331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I don't defend the Catholic church for its teachings and actions that I think are wrong-headed or harmful, or make excuses for them.
I know that.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,707 posts, read 6,557,406 times
Reputation: 8223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Acajack, sounds like you are jumping on the bandwagon.

About his cheering.

"The recollections of Mateen’s actions could not be independently verified, and the memories could be clouded by the years that have passed. But similar versions were detailed in separate interviews. As the snapshot in time, the recollections appear to offer yet another stitch in the wider tapestry of Mateen’s life and views before Sunday’s rampage, which included his pledge of loyalty to the Islamic State during a call to police during the standoff.

In an interview, Robert Zirkle, then a freshman at Martin County High School, said he saw Mateen excited and making fun of how America was being attacked on 9/11. “He was making plane noises on the bus, acting like he was running into a building,” Zirkle recalled. “I don’t really know if he was doing it because he was being taught some of that stuff at home or just doing it for attention because he didn’t have a lot of friends.

“Before 9/11 happened, we were pretty straight. We all rode the same bus. We weren’t really close friends, but friends at least a little,” he added, noting that Mateen attended the Spectrum Alternative School, a separate campus in Stuart for students with poor grades or behavioral issues."

All this suggest to me a disturbed child, who may or may not of cheered as the plane hit.

If he did, which is in doubt, I still find it difficult to believe that he connected it with Islamic terrorists. It took two weeks for the FBI to connect it to al-Quaeda.
That's what it sounds like at this point to me too. A crazy guy who might have claimed a relationship with just about anyone for attention. Like a kid I grew up with who claimed he wanted to be a Hell's Angel because he wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. ( I've googled him and he has a normal middle-class life apparently) Kids say all kinds of stupid things, and crazy kids even stupider things.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,724 posts, read 8,803,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
That's what it sounds like at this point to me too. A crazy guy who might have claimed a relationship with just about anyone for attention. Like a kid I grew up with who claimed he wanted to be a Hell's Angel because he wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. ( I've googled him and he has a normal middle-class life apparently) Kids say all kinds of stupid things, and crazy kids even stupider things.
Which harkens back to a point I made earlier. Until, and I'm perfectly willing to accept the fact if it does appear, he is connected directly to a terrorist network of some kind, he is just a mentally unstable nut job who was possibly closeted and self hating who used Islam as an excuse for his acting out his self-hatred.

Using the term " self - radicalized " is interesting. Of all the " self-radicalized " terrorists, how many turned out to be mentally unstable? Anyone know?

It seems a good way for the powers that be, to keep people afraid of " others " and paint 1.9 billion people as a threat.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,724 posts, read 8,803,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Well, I won't be too popular for saying this but here goes...


Canada has a (largely deserved) reputation for being one of the most tolerant countries in the world.


Most Canadians are extremely proud of this and therefore are conscious of the need to live up to the reputation if it is to be maintained.


Islam right now might be said to be something of a global pariah religion. Everyone and their uncle seems to be on their case. (In some cases it's totally undeserved, and in at least a few cases it probably is deserved.) Given the growing trend of islamophobia in western countries, it's therefore not surprising that many Canadians want to give Muslims a break, give them the benefit of the doubt. Not paint them all with the same brush.


So this doesn't mean at all that people are being insincere. Rather, it's that Canadians are often "automatically" tolerant. It's their default position on most anything.


In the haste to be tolerant however, sometimes the less pleasant aspects of belief systems may get glossed over... or too quickly or easily "forgiven".
Just saw this post

Well, one can't argue with ghosts.

Either we are truly tolerant, or we aren't but must act so.

How in " gods name " ( hee, hee ) can one prove or disprove that?
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,443,294 times
Reputation: 8626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Acajack, sounds like you are jumping on the bandwagon.

About his cheering.

"The recollections of Mateen’s actions could not be independently verified, and the memories could be clouded by the years that have passed. But similar versions were detailed in separate interviews. As the snapshot in time, the recollections appear to offer yet another stitch in the wider tapestry of Mateen’s life and views before Sunday’s rampage, which included his pledge of loyalty to the Islamic State during a call to police during the standoff.

In an interview, Robert Zirkle, then a freshman at Martin County High School, said he saw Mateen excited and making fun of how America was being attacked on 9/11. “He was making plane noises on the bus, acting like he was running into a building,” Zirkle recalled. “I don’t really know if he was doing it because he was being taught some of that stuff at home or just doing it for attention because he didn’t have a lot of friends.

“Before 9/11 happened, we were pretty straight. We all rode the same bus. We weren’t really close friends, but friends at least a little,” he added, noting that Mateen attended the Spectrum Alternative School, a separate campus in Stuart for students with poor grades or behavioral issues."

All this suggest to me a disturbed child, who may or may not of cheered as the plane hit.

If he did, which is in doubt, I still find it difficult to believe that he connected it with Islamic terrorists. It took two weeks for the FBI to connect it to al-Quaeda.

The entire world connected it with Islamic terrorists within a few minutes. Al-Qaeda had bombed the WTC garage in 1993 and it had been the wet dream of Ben Laden and his gang to bring down the twin towers as they were a symbol of American capitalism in addition to the Rockefellers being perceived by many as being a Jewish family ().


Just because the FBI didn't come out and say it right away to the media doesn't mean they didn't know who was behind this.


The passengers on Flight 93 were talking to relatives and emergency operators on cell phones for quite some time, and gave descriptions of the hijackers and accounts of what they said their motivations were.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,443,294 times
Reputation: 8626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Which harkens back to a point I made earlier. Until, and I'm perfectly willing to accept the fact if it does appear, he is connected directly to a terrorist network of some kind, he is just a mentally unstable nut job who was possibly closeted and self hating who used Islam as an excuse for his acting out his self-hatred.

Using the term " self - radicalized " is interesting. Of all the " self-radicalized " terrorists, how many turned out to be mentally unstable? Anyone know?

It seems a good way for the powers that be, to keep people afraid of " others " and paint 1.9 billion people as a threat.
Omar Mateen was almost certainly not connected to a terrorist network of some kind.


But so what if he "self-radicalized"? There are still 49 people dead and 53 maimed as a result.


Some comfort.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,968 posts, read 27,443,294 times
Reputation: 8626
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
That's what it sounds like at this point to me too. A crazy guy who might have claimed a relationship with just about anyone for attention. Like a kid I grew up with who claimed he wanted to be a Hell's Angel because he wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. ( I've googled him and he has a normal middle-class life apparently) Kids say all kinds of stupid things, and crazy kids even stupider things.
I don't want mentally unstable people getting pumped up over radical Islam and shooting up gay nightclubs, and I don't want mentally unstable people getting riled up against the U.S. government and blowing up buildings in Oklahoma City either.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,724 posts, read 8,803,839 times
Reputation: 7331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Omar Mateen was almost certainly not connected to a terrorist network of some kind.


But so what if he "self-radicalized"? There are still 49 people dead and 53 maimed as a result.


Some comfort.
My point is that the term " self-radicalized " is being used for political purposes, rather than the fact that mentally unstable people grab onto " the flavour of the month " to give themselves some sort of ego boost.

He was a guy who had no or very few friends, he grew up not feeling like he belonged. What better, albeit, twisted way to make yourself part of a group. A big scary terrorist group at that.

My take, is that if we don't focus on the real cause of this event, which is homophobia, self-hatred, mental illness etc, and focusing on the semi-bogus terrorist angle, the real terrorists win.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,724 posts, read 8,803,839 times
Reputation: 7331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The entire world connected it with Islamic terrorists within a few minutes. Al-Qaeda had bombed the WTC garage in 1993 and it had been the wet dream of Ben Laden and his gang to bring down the twin towers as they were a symbol of American capitalism in addition to the Rockefellers being perceived by many as being a Jewish family ().


Just because the FBI didn't come out and say it right away to the media doesn't mean they didn't know who was behind this.


The passengers on Flight 93 were talking to relatives and emergency operators on cell phones for quite some time, and gave descriptions of the hijackers and accounts of what they said their motivations were.
...but a teenager in a school for trouble youth did. Remember, all the information about Bin Laden and even the conversations on the planes were not made public the day of the tragedy.

To say that he knew AT THE VERY SECOND the plane hit, who was responsible is beyond belief to me.
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