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Old 06-21-2016, 06:02 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,072,511 times
Reputation: 1256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
And guess where they're coming from:


Excerpted: 'Shady gun dealers in the U.S. supply our northern neighbors with weapons through a smuggling route known as the “Iron Pipeline” or “Blue Steel Highway.” Toronto’s police chief, Bill Blair, tells the CBC that up to 70 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in his city were sold in the U.S."

"Shady gun dealers"....exactly....nothing to do with gun control at private citizen level....best illegal firearms are these that the BATF does not even know they exists in the first place.....
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Old 06-21-2016, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I guess you could call Nazis German extremists. Fear of extremists didn't stop Canada from welcoming German families after WWII.



German Canadians - The Canadian Encyclopediaa
I repped you earlier on this post but I also wanted to ask people to pay special attention to the vilification of German Canadians during the war eras which is reminiscent of the anti-Muslim hysteria currently in vogue. So if I'm not jumping in alarm and seeing terrorists under every bed, it's in part because its nothing new and even pacifists by religion were not immune to it. Just as mental illness will find a 'cause' to associate itself with, so will prejudice and bigotry.

In addition to Nazi war criminals who sneaked into places like Canada and the US under false identities, some were actively solicited by the governments of the U.S. and the Soviet Union. https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...o-america.html

Then there were many other German refugees and criminals who eventually found their way to Canada via countries in South America, having not been allowed into countries like Canada and the U.S. for a variety of reasons - sometimes poor health, and sometimes because their war affiliations and probably activities during the wars made them want to lie low for a while. I've met people who were in the Volksdeutsche SS. I'm pretty damned sure they had things to hide.

And I'm bringing it up because, no, it wouldn't surprise me if the occasional refugee turned out not to be a refugee. We have seen that before too, from countries in Africa and the former Yugoslavia.
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:28 PM
 
1,300 posts, read 829,487 times
Reputation: 3625
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
OK, let me answer that since it bothers you that much: because Canada participated in the "air strikes" of Syria, and therefore is partly responsible for the refugee situation.

Don't tell me that was meant to remove a dictator and improve human rights and freedom to Syrians. I am sick of hearing that BS. There is a reason Switzerland is not prone to terrorist attacks.
A couple of things. First off there wouldn't be a Syrian civil war in the first place if many Syrian people didn't rise up in violence against government Syrian forces and turn the argument from protests into full on open conflict. And then when it did become a full on civil war, it was Syrian rebels that pleaded for the world to help them from getting crushed by Assad's forces. The point is we probably wouldn't be in Syria if the rebels didn't beg us to help them and now all of a sudden its all OUR FAULT for trying to save them??

This is why helping Muslims is so useless because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Imagine if the Syrian rebels asked the world for help and we refused them and let them get crushed, we would be villified by many people who would call us heartless for standing by and doing nothing. On the otherhand by helping the rebels and strengthening them, we've actually prolonged the war and increased the death count by many times because both sides are more equal in military strength.

So I don't know why the Syrian refugee problem is all our fault when it was the Syrian people who started the civil war by rising up against Assad and then when they were getting their butts handed to them they begged the world for help and got it and it caused the civil war which might've ended a long time ago to be still going on today and involving ISIS and costing hundreds of thousands of lives and counting.

And also with regards to Canadian air strikes in Syria, according to here:

Did the 606 bombs that Canada dropped make a difference in the war against ISIL? | National Post

Quote:
Since Canada joined that operation in April 2015, CF-18s conducted only five raids on targets in Syria. The U.S. has dropped around 11,000 bombs on targets in Syria. Canada’s contribution in Syria was to drop 27 bombs in total.
So for 27 bombs that Canadian fighter bombers dropped in Syrian territory against ISIS targets, we're forced to take 27,500 refugees into Canada?!??!?! Really? 1,000 refugees per bomb dropped against ISIS forces in Syria? REALLY!???!!? >_>

The point is Canada's involvement in Syria is relatively minimal so I don't know why we had to take in so many refugees other than the Canadian government being dumb and doing it anyways even though as shown in my last post, many Canadians WERE AGAINST taking in refugees in the first place and many more DON'T WANT ANYMORE than we've already taken in. So you tell me why since Canada's military involvement in Syria was relatively tiny that we should be held responsible for the Syria refugee crisis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I repped you earlier on this post but I also wanted to ask people to pay special attention to the vilification of German Canadians during the war eras which is reminiscent of the anti-Muslim hysteria currently in vogue. So if I'm not jumping in alarm and seeing terrorists under every bed, it's in part because its nothing new and even pacifists by religion were not immune to it. Just as mental illness will find a 'cause' to associate itself with, so will prejudice and bigotry.
Here's the thing you seem to have missed in the differences between Germans and Muslims. With the Germans once the war ended, the Germans stopped making war against the world PERIOD. They didn't continue fighting a guerilla war against Europe and declare an eternal jihad on the world and continue to kill people to this day. So although alot of people might've hated Germans for a very long time, eventually their hate died down over time when the Germans showed that all they wanted to do after WWII was rebuild their country and live in peace.

That is the EXACT OPPOSITE with what we're dealing with Muslims right now. There will NEVER be peace with Muslims and there will NEVER be peace even among Muslims themselves. Millions of Muslims don't have any other purpose in life other than to cause chaos and violence and death in the name of their religion. And THAT'S the difference between Germans and Muslims. One group accepted their defeat and went on to rebuild their country from the ruins and proceed to be a world economic powerhouse. The other group has little to no interest in advancing their people into the 21st century and instead would prefer to keep their people oppressed and uneducated and stupid and forced to believe in a stone age religion so that they can be manipulated and coerced into fighting and dying for that religion indefinitely with no end in sight EVER.
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Old 06-22-2016, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
A couple of things. First off there wouldn't be a Syrian civil war in the first place if many Syrian people didn't rise up in violence against government Syrian forces and turn the argument from protests into full on open conflict. And then when it did become a full on civil war, it was Syrian rebels that pleaded for the world to help them from getting crushed by Assad's forces. The point is we probably wouldn't be in Syria if the rebels didn't beg us to help them and now all of a sudden its all OUR FAULT for trying to save them??

This is why helping Muslims is so useless because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Imagine if the Syrian rebels asked the world for help and we refused them and let them get crushed, we would be villified by many people who would call us heartless for standing by and doing nothing. On the otherhand by helping the rebels and strengthening them, we've actually prolonged the war and increased the death count by many times because both sides are more equal in military strength.

So I don't know why the Syrian refugee problem is all our fault when it was the Syrian people who started the civil war by rising up against Assad and then when they were getting their butts handed to them they begged the world for help and got it and it caused the civil war which might've ended a long time ago to be still going on today and involving ISIS and costing hundreds of thousands of lives and counting.

And also with regards to Canadian air strikes in Syria, according to here:

Did the 606 bombs that Canada dropped make a difference in the war against ISIL? | National Post

So for 27 bombs that Canadian fighter bombers dropped in Syrian territory against ISIS targets, we're forced to take 27,500 refugees into Canada?!??!?! Really? 1,000 refugees per bomb dropped against ISIS forces in Syria? REALLY!???!!? >_>

The point is Canada's involvement in Syria is relatively minimal so I don't know why we had to take in so many refugees other than the Canadian government being dumb and doing it anyways even though as shown in my last post, many Canadians WERE AGAINST taking in refugees in the first place and many more DON'T WANT ANYMORE than we've already taken in. So you tell me why since Canada's military involvement in Syria was relatively tiny that we should be held responsible for the Syria refugee crisis?



Here's the thing you seem to have missed in the differences between Germans and Muslims. With the Germans once the war ended, the Germans stopped making war against the world PERIOD. They didn't continue fighting a guerilla war against Europe and declare an eternal jihad on the world and continue to kill people to this day. So although alot of people might've hated Germans for a very long time, eventually their hate died down over time when the Germans showed that all they wanted to do after WWII was rebuild their country and live in peace.

That is the EXACT OPPOSITE with what we're dealing with Muslims right now. There will NEVER be peace with Muslims and there will NEVER be peace even among Muslims themselves. Millions of Muslims don't have any other purpose in life other than to cause chaos and violence and death in the name of their religion. And THAT'S the difference between Germans and Muslims. One group accepted their defeat and went on to rebuild their country from the ruins and proceed to be a world economic powerhouse. The other group has little to no interest in advancing their people into the 21st century and instead would prefer to keep their people oppressed and uneducated and stupid and forced to believe in a stone age religion so that they can be manipulated and coerced into fighting and dying for that religion indefinitely with no end in sight EVER.
I didn't miss that. My post was more in response to katy's misconception about post-war German immigration. There are differences and there are similarities. I might post more later. I thought it was well-established that there aren't 'millions' of Muslims who are terrorists. But I have a busy day ahead so maybe more later.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Toronto
1,570 posts, read 2,813,314 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
The United States borders some of the worst narco states in the world, and guns would never disappear. We would just have more guns in the hands of criminals and a new black market, making your country then border a terrible narco/arms state. Oh, after a bloody civil war first because there is no way people here will give up their right to defend themselves guaranteed in our constitution.
Wow. Just...wow. For one thing, the US borders one so-called "narco-state" and the entire reason Mexico has become saturated with drugs has nothing to do with drug use among its own population — Just like Honduras or even Puerto Rico, which is part of the US, Mexico's extraordinary rate of violent crime stems from its geography and proximity to the US. It is American drug users, easy availability of high-powered weapons jus across the border, and the War on Drugs that has helped turn these places into violent, drug-gang-controlled transit points for narcotics to reach the most profitable drug market on Earth — America. Almost all the guns that have turned these places into warzones were purchased legally in the US and then smuggled south. The drugs go north, the guns go south.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:38 AM
 
18,273 posts, read 10,377,134 times
Reputation: 13335
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
"Shady gun dealers"....exactly....nothing to do with gun control at private citizen level....best illegal firearms are these that the BATF does not even know they exists in the first place.....
And how is that distinction relevant to my point of living next door to a neighbour with a burgeoning firearm proliferation problem being a large contributing factor to our firearms related crimes?
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:21 AM
 
14,205 posts, read 6,112,535 times
Reputation: 8852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
A couple of things. First off there wouldn't be a Syrian civil war in the first place if many Syrian people didn't rise up in violence against government Syrian forces and turn the argument from protests into full on open conflict. And then when it did become a full on civil war, it was Syrian rebels that pleaded for the world to help them from getting crushed by Assad's forces. The point is we probably wouldn't be in Syria if the rebels didn't beg us to help them and now all of a sudden its all OUR FAULT for trying to save them??

This is why helping Muslims is so useless because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Imagine if the Syrian rebels asked the world for help and we refused them and let them get crushed, we would be villified by many people who would call us heartless for standing by and doing nothing. On the otherhand by helping the rebels and strengthening them, we've actually prolonged the war and increased the death count by many times because both sides are more equal in military strength.

So I don't know why the Syrian refugee problem is all our fault when it was the Syrian people who started the civil war by rising up against Assad and then when they were getting their butts handed to them they begged the world for help and got it and it caused the civil war which might've ended a long time ago to be still going on today and involving ISIS and costing hundreds of thousands of lives and counting.

And also with regards to Canadian air strikes in Syria, according to here:

Did the 606 bombs that Canada dropped make a difference in the war against ISIL? | National Post

So for 27 bombs that Canadian fighter bombers dropped in Syrian territory against ISIS targets, we're forced to take 27,500 refugees into Canada?!??!?! Really? 1,000 refugees per bomb dropped against ISIS forces in Syria? REALLY!???!!? >_>

The point is Canada's involvement in Syria is relatively minimal so I don't know why we had to take in so many refugees other than the Canadian government being dumb and doing it anyways even though as shown in my last post, many Canadians WERE AGAINST taking in refugees in the first place and many more DON'T WANT ANYMORE than we've already taken in. So you tell me why since Canada's military involvement in Syria was relatively tiny that we should be held responsible for the Syria refugee crisis?



Here's the thing you seem to have missed in the differences between Germans and Muslims. With the Germans once the war ended, the Germans stopped making war against the world PERIOD. They didn't continue fighting a guerilla war against Europe and declare an eternal jihad on the world and continue to kill people to this day. So although alot of people might've hated Germans for a very long time, eventually their hate died down over time when the Germans showed that all they wanted to do after WWII was rebuild their country and live in peace.

That is the EXACT OPPOSITE with what we're dealing with Muslims right now. There will NEVER be peace with Muslims and there will NEVER be peace even among Muslims themselves. Millions of Muslims don't have any other purpose in life other than to cause chaos and violence and death in the name of their religion. And THAT'S the difference between Germans and Muslims. One group accepted their defeat and went on to rebuild their country from the ruins and proceed to be a world economic powerhouse. The other group has little to no interest in advancing their people into the 21st century and instead would prefer to keep their people oppressed and uneducated and stupid and forced to believe in a stone age religion so that they can be manipulated and coerced into fighting and dying for that religion indefinitely with no end in sight EVER.
Excellent reply. I wonder if the Nazi and Japanese ideals of racial purity would have survived if our leaders of the time made excuses for them instead of taking a strong moral stance against them. When Ben Affleck got so mad at Bill Maher and his guest for perceived racism against Muslims, there was an open letter by a Pakistani-Canadian woman who was upset with Ben for stopping the conversation that needs to be had against the worst elements of the ideology. She and others like her are hoping for reform, but reform cannot happen when people like John Kerry say things like this after the Paris mass shooting in November:

"There's something different than what happened from Charlie Hebdo, and I think everybody would feel that," Kerry said in Paris, according to a transcript of his remarks. "There was a sort of particularized focus and perhaps even a legitimacy in terms of — not a legitimacy, but a rationale that you could attach yourself to somehow and say, OK, they’re really angry because of this and that.”

Sounds very nice until you realize he was talking about people slaughtering twelve people because they drew a cartoon of Mohammad.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014...o-ben-affleck/

How do you fight against something without being morally forceful about it instead of understanding a kind of rationale?

Last edited by katygirl68; 06-22-2016 at 08:18 AM..
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:27 AM
 
14,205 posts, read 6,112,535 times
Reputation: 8852
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Wow. Just...wow. For one thing, the US borders one so-called "narco-state" and the entire reason Mexico has become saturated with drugs has nothing to do with drug use among its own population — Just like Honduras or even Puerto Rico, which is part of the US, Mexico's extraordinary rate of violent crime stems from its geography and proximity to the US. It is American drug users, easy availability of high-powered weapons jus across the border, and the War on Drugs that has helped turn these places into violent, drug-gang-controlled transit points for narcotics to reach the most profitable drug market on Earth — America. Almost all the guns that have turned these places into warzones were purchased legally in the US and then smuggled south. The drugs go north, the guns go south.
Sure, it's all America's fault for the Mexican government's corruption and inability and unwillingness to do anything about their drug cartels.
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Old 06-22-2016, 08:22 AM
 
213 posts, read 160,967 times
Reputation: 490
A comment about post-war German immigration:


The key word is POST-WAR. The Nazis were utterly defeated, and there wasn't really a risk of individual Germans massacring local citizens via lone-wolf terror attacks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but immigration from Germany DURING the war was pretty close to zero, no?


In the current situation, we're dealing with a large number of Muslims - mostly Arabs and South Asians - who have declared their own personal holy war against the West and Western citizens, and who have shown a willingness and capability to commit mass slaughter against us, including in our own countries.


Until that situation changes, they shouldn't be coming here. End of story.


As much as it pains me greatly to agree with Trump on anything, as he's a loathsome human being, the West needs to minimize our contact with these people until they sort this crap out and enter the modern world.
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
Reputation: 8603
I think it's worth mentioning that outmigrants from places with great societal upheaval (like Germany back in the day and Syria today) tend to be disproportionately people from minorities (religious or ethnic).


Obviously some Germans who were Nazi sympathizers did move to Canada, but in the people classified as "German" there would have a been a good chunk that would have been Jews or from other minorities, I'd say.


Today, the proportion of Syrians in Syria that are Sunni Muslims is very high, but this group makes up a considerably smaller proportion of Syrian refugees to Canada, for example. The proportion of Christians (to name only them) from Syria in the recent wave of refugees appears to be much higher than their share of the population in their old country. There also seem to be lots of Yazidis and Kurds (who are Sunnis I believe but not "Arab" per se) among the refugees...


Over the past six months, the media has been full of reports about Syrian refugees celebrating their first Christmas in Canada, their first Easter in Canada, the Armenian community in Montreal and Toronto welcoming Syrian refugees (who in those cases have surnames ending in "-ian")...
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