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Old 06-28-2016, 10:50 PM
 
14,195 posts, read 6,105,213 times
Reputation: 8847

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKezarWoodsman View Post
I agree with that fact, that although in many areas police can be counted on within minutes if you make a call and say armed intruder, sometimes it is not as fast (most if not all hostage situations are like this). Another issue in the northern states during winter couldwhich be that the roads are all snowed in, forcing the police to snowshoe/snowmobile to you (in case they would most likely send a game warden, as i doubt police go snow-mobiles), and even that would take awhile.

And to Zolsite, that seems like a good compromise, does canada have a duty to retreat as well? (here in Ma you have duty to retreat no-matter what bodily harm retreating may cause if it is less than what the other guy was trying to do to you, mostly on a judge-judge basis, other states have Castle (no duty to retreat in your home) or Stand your ground laws (no duty to retreat ever), the first i mostly support, and the latter i do not.

For instance in MA (one of the most liberal states, and i am assuming even more liberal than some provinces), it is pretty hard to justify a self-defense shooting (even if not lethal), unless you were already shot. Even then, you can only cause as much damage as already done to you (unless you have really good proof that he was going to do more, such as video evidence).
You're okay with that? I think it's horrid. If someone comes into my home, I have a right to protect myself up to and including deadly force. I don't like the idea of killing someone in my home, but I don't like the idea that I have to retreat to get away from the intruder. What if the intruder followed? What if in my judgement, the intruder meant to harm me and I used a gun to defend myself, and then I was prosecuted for it? How would I prove that they meant harm?

That's a bs law there. If someone makes the judgement to come into another person's home for evil intent, they take their lives in their hands in my state. And people defend themselves all the time. I hear on the news quite frequently about people who shot an intruder. I have zero sympathy for the intruders.

My nephew's friend was killed by a home invader, so it really hits home for me.
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:03 PM
 
Location: MA/ME (the way life should not be / the way it should be)
1,267 posts, read 982,362 times
Reputation: 721
I said i support castle doctrines, and stand your ground laws (OUTSIDE ypur home) need some work to make them work. On yoyr own property, or on private property you have undeniable legal right to be on (say your hunting on land you have written permission), you should be able to at the least meet force with force.

I never said i supports Massachussetts laws, and a good compromise never means i fully support it either.

I could have worded that better, but i feel i made my point clear enough that i full-heartedly support a castle law if in defense of self/pets/others. If you are in a mall, i feel there should be some restriction, as most likely you can find help fast. If it is a mass shooter situation such as orlando, then im sure any sane judge (who is not with isis) will refuse to hold you accountable to whatever harm you cause the shooter, even if it is insanley unreasonable (such as knocking him unconsious then proceeding to dispatch him to the netherlands, when he is clearly in a state to be apprehended by police, as well, he is litterally out cold).
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:00 AM
 
14,195 posts, read 6,105,213 times
Reputation: 8847
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKezarWoodsman View Post
I said i support castle doctrines, and stand your ground laws (OUTSIDE ypur home) need some work to make them work. On yoyr own property, or on private property you have undeniable legal right to be on (say your hunting on land you have written permission), you should be able to at the least meet force with force.

I never said i supports Massachussetts laws, and a good compromise never means i fully support it either.

I could have worded that better, but i feel i made my point clear enough that i full-heartedly support a castle law if in defense of self/pets/others. If you are in a mall, i feel there should be some restriction, as most likely you can find help fast. If it is a mass shooter situation such as orlando, then im sure any sane judge (who is not with isis) will refuse to hold you accountable to whatever harm you cause the shooter, even if it is insanley unreasonable (such as knocking him unconsious then proceeding to dispatch him to the netherlands, when he is clearly in a state to be apprehended by police, as well, he is litterally out cold).
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was saying your opinion was bad or horrid. I didn't mean offense. I was just giving my opinion of duty to retreat laws. I'm really on the fence about stand your ground laws outside your home because they have been abused so much. Then again, we normally only hear about the idiots like George Zimmerman and not the actual self-defense incidents.

As for mass shootings, you'd be surprised to see how many potential mass shootings have been stopped by people with guns. They don't make the news for nearly as long because the body count does not get high, but I did find some articles. Of course, some were stopped by citizens without guns, such as the Americans on the Paris train, or teachers talking students out of their intent to harm.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ass-shootings/

I don't think this includes the man in Oklahoma who beheaded his co-worker and was trying to behead another when the boss shot him with the gun in his desk drawer.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:43 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,152 times
Reputation: 1256
If you guys need any more proof of big media anti-gun bias.....


"Deputies: Man charged after opening fire, wounding several people at nightclub"


Deputies with Spartanburg County said a man faces multiple attempted murder charges after opening fire outside a nightclub early Sunday morning.

The shooting happened around 3:30 a.m. at Playoffz nightclub on Inman Road in Lyman.

Deputies said 32-year-old Jody Ray Thompson pulled out a gun after getting into an argument with another man and fired several rounds toward a crowd that had gathered out in front of the club.

"His rounds struck 3 victims, and almost struck a fourth victim, who in self-defense, pulled his own weapon and fired, striking Thompson in the leg," Lt. Kevin Bobo said.

Bobo said the man who shot Thompson has a valid concealed weapons permit, cooperated with investigators, and won’t be facing any charges.

"Thompson was still on the scene when deputies arrived, but the initial scene was chaotic," Bobo said. "It wasn’t until victims and witnesses were interviewed, and video from the scene was reviewed that Thompson was identified as the suspect."

Thompson was charged four counts of attempted murder, possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime, and unlawful carrying of a weapon.



Deputies: Man charged after opening fire, wounding several peopl - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina


Couple of other recent episodes....good only for local news....


Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square


Authorities say no charges will be filed against an Uber driver who shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Logan Square over the weekend.

The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday.

A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. Friday in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.

The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.


Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square - Chicago Tribune


Gunman Shot, Killed Inside West Philly Barbershop


Police say a man likely saved the lives of several people when he shot and killed a gunman inside a West Philadelphia barbershop.
A 40-year-old man was inside Falah Barber Shop Inc. on the 600 block of Preston Street shortly before 3 p.m. Sunday when police say he began fighting with another person inside.
Body Found Floating in Delaware River
"They were arguing," said 16-year-old Yusaf Mack who was a customer inside the shop at the time. "They were taking it too far and one of the barbers said, 'chill out.'"
The fight quickly escalated and the 40-year-old man took out his gun and opened fire on customers and barbers, police said.
"I heard gunshots so I ducked and I ran," said Mack.
As he was shooting, another man outside heard the gunfire, ran into the shop and took out his own gun, according to investigators. He then opened fire, striking the 40-year-old man once in the chest.
Philly Home-Care Company Shuts Down
"He just shot him and when he was done shooting he ran," Mack said.
The 40-year-old man was taken to Presbyterian Hospital where he later died from his injuries. Police have not yet revealed his identity.
19th Century Philadelphia Church to Be Demolished
Police said there were children inside the shop at the time but no one else was hurt.
The man who killed the gunman later surrendered to police at the 16th District Headquarters. Investigators say at this point it appears the shooting was in self-defense and the man likely will not face any charges. They continue to investigate however.
"The person who responded was a legal gun permit carrier," said Philadelphia Police Captain Frank Llewellyn. "He responded and I guess he saved a lot of people in there."



Gunman Shot, Killed Inside West Philly Barbershop | NBC 10 Philadelphia


Lives saved by licensed gun owners, nothing to see here, move on...
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,681 posts, read 8,743,773 times
Reputation: 7283
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
If you guys need any more proof of big media anti-gun bias.....


"Deputies: Man charged after opening fire, wounding several people at nightclub"


Deputies with Spartanburg County said a man faces multiple attempted murder charges after opening fire outside a nightclub early Sunday morning.

The shooting happened around 3:30 a.m. at Playoffz nightclub on Inman Road in Lyman.

Deputies said 32-year-old Jody Ray Thompson pulled out a gun after getting into an argument with another man and fired several rounds toward a crowd that had gathered out in front of the club.

"His rounds struck 3 victims, and almost struck a fourth victim, who in self-defense, pulled his own weapon and fired, striking Thompson in the leg," Lt. Kevin Bobo said.

Bobo said the man who shot Thompson has a valid concealed weapons permit, cooperated with investigators, and won’t be facing any charges.

"Thompson was still on the scene when deputies arrived, but the initial scene was chaotic," Bobo said. "It wasn’t until victims and witnesses were interviewed, and video from the scene was reviewed that Thompson was identified as the suspect."

Thompson was charged four counts of attempted murder, possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime, and unlawful carrying of a weapon.



Deputies: Man charged after opening fire, wounding several peopl - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina


Couple of other recent episodes....good only for local news....


Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square


Authorities say no charges will be filed against an Uber driver who shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Logan Square over the weekend.

The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday.

A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. Friday in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.

The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.


Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square - Chicago Tribune


Gunman Shot, Killed Inside West Philly Barbershop


Police say a man likely saved the lives of several people when he shot and killed a gunman inside a West Philadelphia barbershop.
A 40-year-old man was inside Falah Barber Shop Inc. on the 600 block of Preston Street shortly before 3 p.m. Sunday when police say he began fighting with another person inside.
Body Found Floating in Delaware River
"They were arguing," said 16-year-old Yusaf Mack who was a customer inside the shop at the time. "They were taking it too far and one of the barbers said, 'chill out.'"
The fight quickly escalated and the 40-year-old man took out his gun and opened fire on customers and barbers, police said.
"I heard gunshots so I ducked and I ran," said Mack.
As he was shooting, another man outside heard the gunfire, ran into the shop and took out his own gun, according to investigators. He then opened fire, striking the 40-year-old man once in the chest.
Philly Home-Care Company Shuts Down
"He just shot him and when he was done shooting he ran," Mack said.
The 40-year-old man was taken to Presbyterian Hospital where he later died from his injuries. Police have not yet revealed his identity.
19th Century Philadelphia Church to Be Demolished
Police said there were children inside the shop at the time but no one else was hurt.
The man who killed the gunman later surrendered to police at the 16th District Headquarters. Investigators say at this point it appears the shooting was in self-defense and the man likely will not face any charges. They continue to investigate however.
"The person who responded was a legal gun permit carrier," said Philadelphia Police Captain Frank Llewellyn. "He responded and I guess he saved a lot of people in there."



Gunman Shot, Killed Inside West Philly Barbershop | NBC 10 Philadelphia


Lives saved by licensed gun owners, nothing to see here, move on...
The irony.

Lovely society you've got there. Citizens needing guns to protect other citizens from people with guns. Your post, trying to prove how good guns are fails miserably if your point is pro-gun.

Now more deaths and shootings in Dallas. On and on and on and on it goes.

You can have it.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,434,812 times
Reputation: 3257
Yeah I like the fact I don't need a gun, I don't feel the need to own a gun. I have never even heard a gun shot here in my life. That is the great thing about Canada, it is very laid back. I know some one is going to come along and say our crime rate is higher than other places, which might true but for the most part we do very well. Say no to guns.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:52 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
The irony.

Lovely society you've got there. Citizens needing guns to protect other citizens from people with guns. Your post, trying to prove how good guns are fails miserably if your point is pro-gun.

Now more deaths and shootings in Dallas. On and on and on and on it goes.

You can have it.
they have it backwards - the fact that people need guns to protect themselves on a daily basis is the problem.


Honestly, does anyone actually think owning a gun will reduce the risk of being killed by gangs and thugs? I mean how? Even if each of us has a gun, do we carry it with us all the time, because incidents can happen any time, anywhere? Do we carry it to the theatres, restaurants, theme parks, beaches? Should teachers carry guns to campus to protect children? Should nurse carry guns in the hospital? Should bus drivers carry guns? Come on, in a realistic scenario, what are the chance the guns we own will magically be there in times of danger?


Instead of insisting on the right of owning guns, why shouldn't such a society look at the way it is functioning, and how come so many people want to kill others? I am not going to preach about the specifics, but providing people, particularly the lower class with decent access to good education, health care, lodging etc, on a community level will be far more effective in preventing tragedies than owning guns.


This whole gun freedom is so bogus. And I can't imagine in a wealthy highly developed country each citizens need weapons all the time to protect themselves. It is not freedom, it is massive failure. Even with a powerful machete at each household, how safe can they be?


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." --- just look how stupid and outdated it is, in 2016 (vs. 1791)
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,681 posts, read 8,743,773 times
Reputation: 7283
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
they have it backwards - the fact that people need guns to protect themselves on a daily basis is the problem.


Honestly, does anyone actually think owning a gun will reduce the risk of being killed by gangs and thugs? I mean how? Even if each of us has a gun, do we carry it with us all the time, because incidents can happen any time, anywhere? Do we carry it to the theatres, restaurants, theme parks, beaches? Should teachers carry guns to campus to protect children? Should nurse carry guns in the hospital? Should bus drivers carry guns? Come on, in a realistic scenario, what are the chance the guns we own will magically be there in times of danger?


Instead of insisting on the right of owning guns, why shouldn't such a society look at the way it is functioning, and how come so many people want to kill others? I am not going to preach about the specifics, but providing people, particularly the lower class with decent access to good education, health care, lodging etc, on a community level will be far more effective in preventing tragedies than owning guns.


This whole gun freedom is so bogus. And I can't imagine in a wealthy highly developed country each citizens need weapons all the time to protect themselves. It is not freedom, it is massive failure. Even with a powerful machete at each household, how safe can they be?


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." --- just look how stupid and outdated it is, in 2016 (vs. 1791)
It's a cliche now, but " If owning guns made society safer, the USA would be one of the safest countries, when it is not ".

They come back with arguments about ghettos, gangs, certain neighbourhoods etc. All true, but they seem to not want to acknowledge shootings, accidental and otherwise, in shopping malls, elementary schools, nightclubs, colleges, theatres, restaurants, and now snipers shooting police from rooftops.

Like I said. Lovely society.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,681 posts, read 8,743,773 times
Reputation: 7283
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Yeah I like the fact I don't need a gun, I don't feel the need to own a gun. I have never even heard a gun shot here in my life. That is the great thing about Canada, it is very laid back. I know some one is going to come along and say our crime rate is higher than other places, which might true but for the most part we do very well. Say no to guns.
The crime rate manipulation. I've seen the post that try to make the US look good by comparing an area of the US with low crime rate to one in Canada with higher crime rate. It's a bogus comparison.

The only way the can win the argument on crime rates is if they break down the stats to areas with lower crime rates. It's silly. Having a lower crime rate in rural Minnesota doesn't make things like the Orlando Shootings more palatable.
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:01 PM
 
18,265 posts, read 10,366,114 times
Reputation: 13321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
The crime rate manipulation. I've seen the post that try to make the US look good by comparing an area of the US with low crime rate to one in Canada with higher crime rate. It's a bogus comparison.

The only way the can win the argument on crime rates is if they break down the stats to areas with lower crime rates. It's silly. Having a lower crime rate in rural Minnesota doesn't make things like the Orlando Shootings more palatable.
You do know you're wasting your typing time on here Nat?

They're in the proverbial eye of the hurricane now and they know it.

At this time as witnessed on here in any number of threads they have arrived at the juncture of pigeonholing the two positions in childish acronyms of "liberals" and "conservatives" regardless of common sense suggesting equal measures of either on opposite sides of both positions. They will continue to slang each other in a parody of the schoolyard bullies until the majority populace revolts and forces measures that restrict individual rights and freedoms like never before and then their grand experiment is over.

Catch 22; they have no choice now but to ride this runaway juggernaut to the end of the line. Untold thousands more are doomed before they will even consider coming to their senses. Firearm owners are fooling themselves if they believe the day is never coming where enough of the population becomes fed up to the extent they push for extreme measures to address this conundrum.

All because they've immaturely attached their freedoms and liberties to a piece of inert metal other countries have disdained for the plague it is upon advanced sociological development.
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