U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-14-2016, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post

First rule of debating on a topic is to inform yourself.....the amount of ignorance showed by some anti-gun critics (I'm not talking specifically about you) is frankly appalling.
Well - how about changing the gun laws and see if it has a desired result in a decade or so instead of assuming it won't. Once that takes place and if people are still going into clubs and school's with grandpa's hunting rifles killing 23 kids or 50 people in one sitting time and time again, than you can come back and say I told you so. Deal?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-14-2016, 12:04 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,996 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
The reasoning? You mean defending the population against a tyrannical government? The one with tanks, nukes and firing power a thousand times more than all the guns in the US? That reasoning?

Do you seriously believe that the writers of the 2nd amendment had ANY clue as to how technology and firing power were to change over the next 225 years? Do you honestly they think they would be proud of the US today?
Really?? Do you really think you need tanks and nukes to make a country ungovernable?? Ask insurgents in the middle east....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 12:15 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,996 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well - how about changing the gun laws and see if it has a desired result in a decade or so instead of assuming it won't. Once that takes place and if people still are going into clubs and school's with grandpa's hunting rifles killing 23 kids or 50 people in one sitting, than you can come back and say I told you so. Deal?
Been done already my friend.....gun laws were much more relaxed 50-60 years ago....shotguns did not even have serial numbers prior to 1968, you could buy guns at Sears or any hardware store and teenagers could buy .22 rifles...and violent crime was not a vital issue as it is today.

By the way currently violent crimes is at historical low (since 1978) in the US and gun ownership is through the roof....need more proof??

I will gladly continue to debate this particular topic that, by the way, has very little relevance with this particular horrible massacre in Orlando....frankly I think we should discuss other aspects that are much more important in this very unfortunate episode.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Been done already my friend.....gun laws were much more relaxed 50-60 years ago....shotguns did not even have serial numbers prior to 1968, you could buy guns at Sears or any hardware store and teenagers could buy .22 rifles...and violent crime was not a vital issue as it is today.

By the way currently violent crimes is at historical low (since 1978) in the US and gun ownership is through the roof....need more proof??

I will gladly continue to debate this particular topic that, by the way, has very little relevance with this particular horrible massacre in Orlando....frankly I think we should discuss other aspects that are much more important in this very unfortunate episode.
Lets not use gun laws from 50-60 years ago. Its a different time so perhaps a bit more flexible thinking now instead of trying to use a parallel from a long time ago is in order.

As for violent crimes being at a historical low, I don't require proof and will take your word for it. That said, the string of high profile large scale massacres is happening with quite regularity in modern times. Perhaps a different approach is in order - even type trialed to see if it has a positive result. If 150 lives can be saved even over a 10-15 year period its worth it. If another Sandy Hook or Pulse could be prevented by changing the laws I think its worth it.

As for the other aspects I completely agree with you! I've delved into a bit of those myself in this thread but you are right - there are absolutely other important matters that should be discussed in this and other unfortunate incidents. I also get this is more, much more than a weapon so don't think i'm looking for a convenient excuse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 01:08 AM
 
34,381 posts, read 41,471,780 times
Reputation: 29863
Americas problem is too many easily obtained guns and nut jobs willing to use them.
Gun laws are meaningless when some one is determined to go on a killing spree,eg the Pride Bar was a gun free establishment.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ook-post-says/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Americas problem is too many easily obtained guns and nut jobs willing to use them.
Gun laws are meaningless when some one is determined to go on a killing spree,eg the Pride Bar was a gun free establishment.
So trial it and if it does nothing revert back. No harm no foul.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738
So it looks like Omar Mateen may have been no stranger to the gay world. He used a gay dating app, described as having gay tendencies by his ex wife and also frequented Pulse nightclub many times.

Orlando shooting gunman Omar Mateen was gay, say ex-wife Sitora Yusufiy and friend | Daily Mail Online
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,691 posts, read 6,537,402 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
A good read from Owen Jones on how far some will go to ignore homophobia. Well worth reading.


On Sky News last night, I realised how far some will go to ignore homophobia | Owen Jones | Opinion | The Guardian


So the probability that he would just say randomly one Saturday night go into a Gay club and spray said targeted audience with bullets from a gun that can fire hundreds of rounds per minute, had nothing to do with Homophobia.... He just walked into a random club because he was crazy - no clue he was walking into a gay club???
Except what does it make it if the shooter, as is being increasingly suggested in news reports, was in fact himself gay? Even if a self-hating gay? What is it called then?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 02:28 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,996 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
If 150 lives can be saved even over a 10-15 year period its worth it. If another Sandy Hook or Pulse could be prevented by changing the laws I think its worth it.

Problem is you can't.....these mass shooting are the results of complex sociological problems....even if you ban guns outright they would find a way to do harm.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2016, 03:00 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Problem is you can't.....these mass shooting are the results of complex sociological problems....even if you ban guns outright they would find a way to do harm.
I don't disagree that these are complex problems. I'm not saying that there is a one size fits all solution either. I'm looking at multi-pronged solutions. Or there is the - well this is going to happen anyway approach so lets resort to playing tiddly winks and do nothing.

Last edited by fusion2; 06-14-2016 at 03:24 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top