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Old 06-14-2016, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post

It matters little if this fellow was a conflicted and angry homophobe struggling with his inner gay identity and indoctrinated by a very rabid, anti-gay, anti-western father who nevertheless is living the life of an urban dweller complete with a ranch bungalow full of furniture while wearing the suits with the silk tie. Those are the things of everyday life in north America.
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I can't understand why generalized homophobia in any society matters little or generalized racism matters little. If we don't get at the heart of the social issues that are probably creating a fertile environment for problems than yes, these things will continue to happen. Not just in terms of random shootings, mass shootings but all facets of society - top to bottom. Sorry Bru - we have a lot of work to do when it comes to integrating all our members into it healthily. There is still an unhealthy dose of unacceptance in this country. It may not be as bad as our friends south of us - but we got problems and all too often we don't like to talk about them. Its far easier just to throw our superior gun laws around or that we have less pronounced income inequality or that we are more civil and polite.

I think guns are the easy way out of the discussion personally.

Last edited by fusion2; 06-14-2016 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,690 posts, read 8,756,192 times
Reputation: 7304
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer gets a gun. He explains his need as something like, "Well, I don't want the King of England to come and take us back."

While Homer's view may have had some validity in 1789, it holds very little water in 2016, when the UK has no interest in regaining the US. My own feeling is that the Founding Fathers felt like Homer when they crafted the Second Amendment: we need to be armed just in case the British try again. And as Nat astutely points out, small arms operated by civilians will have little effect against a trained American domestic military using tanks, smart bombs, tactical nukes, and the like.

In my lifetime, I've shot thousands of rounds from a variety of firearms--including an AR-15. After having shot one, an AR-15 is not, IMHO, a hunting rifle--a Remington or a Mossberg or a Winchester is a hunting rifle. An AR-15 is a killing machine, pure and simple. Bambi won't stand a chance, and neither will people.
Thanks Chevy.

Homer Simpson is apt.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
Reputation: 8603
There was some discussion about a worsening of the violent crime situation in the U.S., so I did some checking.


Overall, in the U.S., all forms of violent crime per 100,000 have declined significantly over the past 25 years.


Mass shootings have increased of course, but the number of people murdered overall is declining.


What shocks people is the randomness of the shootings and probably who the victims often are.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
And again I ask you, what makes Muslims so damn special that we and every other western nation NEEDS THEM?? What special skills or attributes or DNA do Muslims have that they've become like prized free agents that we have to have on our team or in this case in our countries? If you can't explain why we need to have Muslims in Canada then why do we have to keep bringing them in over other more productive, peaceful and much less violent non-Muslim immigrants?

I'm not saying no to immigrants, I'm saying no to Muslims and blacks for the simple reason that history has shown time and again that these two groups are the least likely to integrate properly and most likely to cause trouble, violence and crime. So why do we need to take these kinds of immigrants in for the sake of being 'inclusive' and not being 'racist', instead of doing the right thing and taking in immigrants that will do us little harm and will likely be productive and contribute to our country?

So again PLEASE ANSWER ME, why do we NEED Muslims in Canada or any western country over non-Muslim immigrants from other countries? Please answer that question.

It doesn't matter even if the majority of Americans want gun control. That doesn't change the fact that there are still hundreds of millions of firearms floating around all across the US that you will NEVER get rid of. They've let the gun issue grow out of control wayyy past the point of no return and at this point its just better to let everyone own and carry a gun than to try and get rid of guns which is impossible to do now.

And PLEASE stop saying only a 'small minority' of Muslims are violent and criminal when nearly every damn day there's some kind of violence, injury or death caused by radical Muslims somewhere in the world. Clearly there are millions of Muslims out there who have no other purpose in life other than to cause trouble, violence and death and they all believe in the same religion.

The only reason western nations aren't facing even more attacks and having more people killed and injured is because our intelligence and security forces are advanced and well trained and EVEN THEN we can't stop every single attack. If we had inferior defense forces like what Iraq or Pakistan have we'd be completely effed and facing many more devastating terror attacks in our countries right now. So please stop saying 'only a few' Muslims are causing problems in this world when countries around the world are spending untold billions, manpower and other resources every year to keep our nations and our people safe from Muslim scum of the earth terrorists.
Wow like seriously I don't even want to respond to this in any detailed way. I think you are simply a racist plain and simple. You don't represent most Canadians, increasingly your ilk won't and quite frankly I count the days when people with your views as it applies to racism are things we read about in history books.

Last edited by fusion2; 06-14-2016 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
5,954 posts, read 7,324,357 times
Reputation: 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There was some discussion about a worsening of the violent crime situation in the U.S., so I did some checking.


Overall, in the U.S., all forms of violent crime per 100,000 have declined significantly over the past 25 years.


Mass shootings have increased of course, but the number of people murdered overall is declining.


What shocks people is the randomness of the shootings and probably who the victims often are.
Exactly. The murder rate and rates for other crime is down significantly in the U.S. Actually, most studies show there are even fewer homes with guns now than in 1977 (50% than compared to 31% now). However, those that do have guns now have a larger quantity of arms than they ever did. This politifact article shows the stats while saying Bill Clinton's claim gun ownership is dropping annually is half true.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...ng-households/
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,690 posts, read 8,756,192 times
Reputation: 7304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There was some discussion about a worsening of the violent crime situation in the U.S., so I did some checking.


Overall, in the U.S., all forms of violent crime per 100,000 have declined significantly over the past 25 years.


Mass shootings have increased of course, but the number of people murdered overall is declining.


What shocks people is the randomness of the shootings and probably who the victims often are.
...but are the stats reliable in the US?


FBI Releases 2014 Crime Statistics - The Atlantic
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:36 AM
 
213 posts, read 161,003 times
Reputation: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
To understand today's American gun culture you have to go back in time and reconstruct how we got here and why we're so different from other 1st world former British colonies like Canada and Australia.

Many immigrants to the USA have historically been people fleeing persecution in their home country. Examples include religious Presbyterians from Ulster, Irish starving from English domination, capitalist from China, non Shias from Iran, non communists from Cuba, etc. From these people we inherit a distrust of govt, at best viewing it as a necessary evil. I know in Scotland the natives were banned from having weapons by the English, who would then attack the unarmed people. I believe the 2nd amendment exist because the Founding Fathers wanted people to be able to overthrow govt if it became tyrannical. In addition to fear of govt Americans also tend to be tribal and afraid of other Americans. Fear of Black Americans was instilled to legitimize the brutal treatment of slaves. There has also been fear of new immigrant groups.

Another issue is that America is great mostly because of military success. Canada is successful because you're good at cooperating with other people. America is great because of violence. There are bumper stickers that say "God, guns, and guts made America great". Our history of violence is celebrated, from tv Westerns to movies about snipers. Gun culture is just another way of "celebrating".

Currently American society is very divided and many people have little confidence in the federal govt to protect them. We've always had lots of small scale gun violence (mostly drug dealers killing each other) but 9/11 and terrorist attacks make people feel afraid, thus any restrictions on any gun is going to be difficult. I think 49% of us would be at least assault rifles like the AR 15 tomorrow but majority wins.
Er, not exactly.


The gun craziness that currently exists in America dates only to the 60s/70s.


This is a good article you should read:


The Secret History of Guns - The Atlantic
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
You are attacking your own logic here, don't you realize?


You think we should take in the immigrants "that will do us little hard and will likely be productive and contribute to our country" - I wholly agree with that, but that means it is purely on merit, the criteria you mentioned, is that right? I don't deny that Muslims and blacks probably cause problems that are disproportionate to their respective population, however, those who do cause violence still represents a very low percentage while the majority are just hard working people like us. So tell me, why should an advanced country like Canada refuse to give ALL Muslims a chance to move here? What about those who "will do us little hard and will likely be productive and contribute to our country"? Just because 1% of the rest are bad guys, we should treat them all like terrorists, including those we know have nothing to do with it? You have got to be more reasonable than that.


I don't understand it here. I suppose your motivation is to protect, however, is it justified to exclude and discriminate against an entire region/ethnicity knowing the vast majority are not violent, for this purpose?


It is NOT about political correctness here. PC is about not accusing someone for something he did wrong because he is a minority. Here it is about simply logic reasoning and believe it or not, the well being of Canada. Do we want to be a prejudiced country holding a deep grudge against an entire ethnic group simply because 1% of them commit crimes? That's not protection. That's just bad policy based on poor analysis.


We should all treat people as INDIVIDUALs, not as a member of a group. Is that too much to ask? Isn't that basic human rights? When deciding whether a person is eligible to enter Canada, we should consider all factors that is related to this individual, not other people who belong to the same ethnic group, is that unreasonable? We are not bees who act in flocks. We are all individuals and deserve to be treated like that.
This is an excellent post.. With him though, you might as well be typing this on your wall at home. It won't resonate. His mind is set and fixed.. No cracking open that coconut.
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
Reputation: 3738
Good read on homophobia in Canadian schools. I'm sure this is just as applicable to the climate down in the U.S and someone like Omar Mateen would have been exposed to like many of us are up here.

Quote:
Youth Speak Up About Homophobia and Transphobia, The First National Climate Survey on Homophobia in Canadian Schools, Phase One Report
Quote:
This survey has provided statistically-tested confirmation of what LGBTQ students and their allies have known for some time: that despite Canada’s leadership on human rights for LGBTQ people, a great deal of verbal and physical homophobic harassment goes on in Canadian schools, that they are more likely to be aware of it than are other students who are not its main targets, and that the response has more often than not been inadequate.
Youth Speak Up About Homophobia and Transphobia, The First National Climate Survey on Homophobia in Canadian Schools, Phase One Report – March 2009 | Egale
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
...but are the stats reliable in the US?


FBI Releases 2014 Crime Statistics - The Atlantic
They may not be perfect but it's still way down from the peaks.


For example, of the biggest cities in the U.S., Chicago is likely the most problematic when it comes to shootings and murders, and its homicide total is still about half of what it was in the 1970s.
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