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Old 06-13-2016, 02:49 PM
 
4 posts, read 25,180 times
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I purchased a vehicle in Alberta Canada, I wired money to pay for it in full. I used a importer/broker to provide me with all of the proper documents, the manifest, declaration and a 7501 form. I wrought it through the border myself all went smooth and my broker obtained a St of Washington title for me. I had the vehicle at the Chevrolet dealership having some warranty work done. The Chevrolet dealer called to inform me that the Bank of Nova Scotia had discovered through car fax that it was there and repossessed it, claiming they had a lien on it. Trying to figure out this mess. Spoke with my broker and they said they don't do lien checks and they are checking to see if customs does one or not. Has anyone ever heard of a situation such as this? How could a vehicle make it through the entire importing process and be issued a US title with a lien on it? Another question, is it even possible for a foreign bank to have any claim to a vehicle that is now taxable property in the US void of any bank liens in this country? If anyone has any experience or advice, I would greatly appreciate the input. Thank You
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:46 AM
 
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Never heard of this before... you'd think the Canadian dealer would be obligated to do a search on the vehicle to be sure there weren't any liens on it, before they put it up for sale. The Canadian dealer messed up, they should be paying whatever expenses you've incurred.
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:07 PM
 
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The Dealer in Canada is basically a wholesaler and does not have a retail lot or location. I have contacted him and he explained he had acquired it from another wholesale dealer. In speaking to him about the situation I expected to have him cut me a check back right away. However he is being a bit sheepish and not doing what I think he should and make it right in a timely fashion. He said I need to sue him, so he can in turn sue the guy he got it from. Not wanting to accrue more expenses legal or otherwise, I would like to just see him pay me back and go on my merry way. Unfortunately I'm not exactly getting a warm and fuzzy feeling from him, that he is eager to make it right and pay me back.
I definitely was extremely concerned, if the Bank were to take it back into Canada this would get even messier. So I took the the repo man who still had it in his possession to court, the Judge looked at all of my paperwork and could clearly see that I had properly imported it and ordered the repo man to return it. The Judge did say I'm not to sell or transfer the title while this is in litigation. Now that it's back in my possession, I planned to just drop the suit against the repo man which would free up the judges order. About a week after that day in court, the Bank of Nova Scotia filed a third party complaint and relief to get it back again.
I do have an attorney, but I'm trying to do as much research on my own to minimize my legal expenses. In all of my searches I can't seem to find much pertaining to foreign liens and there validity. I almost every search I've done, I come across a Maritime lien law that pertains to sea going vessels. An international court was forced to address the validity of foreign liens on sea going vessels. Which makes sense, without protection and being able to enforce their liens on vessels bank would never lend money on property designed to load up and head to another country. So if I don't paid off by the Canadian dealer, I want to keep this truck.
The Canadian registration system is clearly broken here, as well as Customs. I would think if a vehicle had a Canadian bank lien on it, I would have been stuck at the border and wouldn't have been able to export it and obtain a lien free title in another country. I don't like the idea of anyone, bank or otherwise being financially damaged, myself included (especially myself). This will be absolutely devastating to me financially to me if I loose this vehicle and can't recover my 30,000.00. It would seem to me that their lien would not be valid or enforceable in the US. Especially in light of the fact that 3 government agencies allowed this to happen, both Canada the US and the state of Washington.
I would certainly think a US citizen would be protected from a foreign bank being able to take property that was properly imported, paid for and was issued a lien free US title. Especially a lien in which my name was never involved. Do you or anyone else out there have any thoughts or know if a foreign lien would be valid or enforceable in the US? Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Pat
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:18 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,043,103 times
Reputation: 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamicdio View Post
The Dealer in Canada is basically a wholesaler and does not have a retail lot or location. I have contacted him and he explained he had acquired it from another wholesale dealer. In speaking to him about the situation I expected to have him cut me a check back right away. However he is being a bit sheepish and not doing what I think he should and make it right in a timely fashion. He said I need to sue him, so he can in turn sue the guy he got it from. Not wanting to accrue more expenses legal or otherwise, I would like to just see him pay me back and go on my merry way. Unfortunately I'm not exactly getting a warm and fuzzy feeling from him, that he is eager to make it right and pay me back.
I definitely was extremely concerned, if the Bank were to take it back into Canada this would get even messier. So I took the the repo man who still had it in his possession to court, the Judge looked at all of my paperwork and could clearly see that I had properly imported it and ordered the repo man to return it. The Judge did say I'm not to sell or transfer the title while this is in litigation. Now that it's back in my possession, I planned to just drop the suit against the repo man which would free up the judges order. About a week after that day in court, the Bank of Nova Scotia filed a third party complaint and relief to get it back again.
I do have an attorney, but I'm trying to do as much research on my own to minimize my legal expenses. In all of my searches I can't seem to find much pertaining to foreign liens and there validity. I almost every search I've done, I come across a Maritime lien law that pertains to sea going vessels. An international court was forced to address the validity of foreign liens on sea going vessels. Which makes sense, without protection and being able to enforce their liens on vessels bank would never lend money on property designed to load up and head to another country. So if I don't paid off by the Canadian dealer, I want to keep this truck.
The Canadian registration system is clearly broken here, as well as Customs. I would think if a vehicle had a Canadian bank lien on it, I would have been stuck at the border and wouldn't have been able to export it and obtain a lien free title in another country. I don't like the idea of anyone, bank or otherwise being financially damaged, myself included (especially myself). This will be absolutely devastating to me financially to me if I loose this vehicle and can't recover my 30,000.00. It would seem to me that their lien would not be valid or enforceable in the US. Especially in light of the fact that 3 government agencies allowed this to happen, both Canada the US and the state of Washington.
I would certainly think a US citizen would be protected from a foreign bank being able to take property that was properly imported, paid for and was issued a lien free US title. Especially a lien in which my name was never involved. Do you or anyone else out there have any thoughts or know if a foreign lien would be valid or enforceable in the US? Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Pat
To be honest, I haven't got a clue what you mean. A wholesaler who bought the cars from another wholesaler? What does that even mean? The cars were all repossessed? Sold though auction? As I said earlier, the wholesaler/retailer/whoever is reselling it, if they are a legitimate business, I can only assume that it was their responsibility to do due diligence and search for liens or other title problems on the vehicle before putting it up for sale. Why they didn't do this, I can't even guess for you.

Important question: Did you buy the car from a licensed dealer? Make some enquiries with the province that issues their license. Provinces each have different databases for tracking liens, and property titles, etc.

Last edited by Ottawa2011; 06-24-2016 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 06-25-2016, 02:28 PM
 
4 posts, read 25,180 times
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What I mean by wholesaler is that he is a wholesale auto dealer. Meaning he does not have a retail location or car lot, his business is primarily between dealers and auctions. His company does very little business with the public. I wish it had been a brick and mortar location such as a dealership or an auction. My attorney is tracking down his actual business location and finding as much about his business as he can. It is a numbered company as many in Canada are, which are a bit confusing to me.

I apologize for any confusion. I am a US citizen and a resident of Montana, which is where the court/Judge is located as well. I purchased the vehicle in Calgary, AB.
Timeline: I agreed to purchase 12-09-15, wired funds to pay in full on 12-15-15, imported it 2-17-16 and the Washighton St title was issued 4-11-16. The bank discovered it was at my local Chevy dealer and picked it up on 5-13-16 and the court date at which it was ordered to be returned to me was 06-02-16.
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Old 06-27-2016, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,565 posts, read 11,062,540 times
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1. Generally speaking, liens are not enforceable trans-border. - This is why you can't import a leased vehicle.
2. What documentation did you provide to Customs that met the requirements for importation? You would have needed a manufacturer's letter and lien free proof of ownership. Per USCIS;


For used, self-propelled vehicles that are registered or titled abroad, the owner must provide to Customs the original document that provides satisfactory proof of ownership (with an English translation of the text if the original language is not in English), and two complete copies of that document (and translation, if necessary).


I'd tell ScotiaBank to take it up with whoever you purchased the vehicle from, as they didn't satisfy the original purchaser's lien somewhere up the convoluted chain of ownership.


Regardless, I wouldn't take it back into Canada any time soon.


You're right though, as Canada doesn't use titles, there's lots of opportunity for this to happen.
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