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Old 12-23-2016, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,961 posts, read 27,397,138 times
Reputation: 8613

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The New York Times actually hits my driveway every morning and I was waiting for the right time to post it. Or if that didn't come up I would have started a thread. I figured it was far more believable than a right-wing website, especially since the Times was looking for a heartwarming story, throw in the warm puppy kind of thing. I was quite sad when I read that. I was hoping that the combination of Canada's distance and its relatively less generous benefits would bring in people who'd kiss Canada's streets on landing.

That was why I followed it up with the Times article. The Times article indirectly gives the DailyCaller article credibility since there were obviously people who didn't fit in perfectly.
I didn't see the article as evidence that the Canadian approach is a failure. It's pretty typical of the immigrant experience in my opinion. Lots of immigrant families go through this type of values clash when they move to a new country - regardless of their origins. The story of the spirited girl was actually quite compelling. One can't help but hope that she'll be able to live her dreams in her new home.

That said, as a non-naive guy I am fully aware we're all walking a very fine line with all of this. It's not really the same as, say, boatloads of Italians and Irish arriving at Ellis Island in the 20th century.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,922 posts, read 2,736,207 times
Reputation: 5102
The difference between immigrants and refugees fleeing war is that immigrants want to be here and most refugees do not. They want to be back home living their lives in the reality that was Syria before the war when life was pretty good. Many of them came to Canada with their families because they realize that will never happen and they wanted a future for their children who were growing up uneducated.

It's a very very difficult adjustment. From what I've read, the waiting lists were sometimes several months long for English classes. Without speaking passable English, it's hard to even begin integration, have Canadian friends or even get a job. Getting used to an alien culture will take time too.

Then there is the PTSD which I suspect a large number of these refugees, both adults and children, are suffering from. It's been brought up in a number of articles I've read and it doesn't seem to have been addressed much so far. Seeing people being blown up, hearing bombs exploding, dealing with loss of relatives, friends, and neighbors, having everything you've worked for destroyed leaves a mark.

I have read a lot of the stories. One woman when she first came to Canada said her little boy slept under her bed a night. A sponsor told of filling the bird feeder in her backyard with a little boy and how he shrank against her in fear when he saw a plane overhead. A father told of how his son (now 12) was walking home from school in Syria when some soldiers, just for kicks, aimed their tank at him, resulting in him losing his leg. Another father talked about how his children's school was bombed three times before the family fled.

It will take time. Expecting the refugees to integrate in the space of a few months, considering what they have been through is ludicrous.

I had a friend in high school whose parents fled the Hungarian Revolution and came to Canada as refugees. One day I was talking about the types of things I had experienced at summer camp as a kid. I asked her if she had ever been. She said yes, but it was boring. They marched around and saluted the Hungarian flag.

It takes time.

I doubt the Muslim population of Canada will grow to represent a significant part of the Canadian population. The Canadian government just announced that private sponsorship of Syrian refugees will be limited to 1,000 people in 2017. Canada limits the number of privately sponsored Syrian refugee applicants in 2017 - British Columbia - CBC News
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,547,132 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Canada's refugee program isn't working out so well. See Violent Syrian Migrants Wreaking Havoc In Canadian Schools. Before anyone says that the Daily Caller is a "right wing sight" the question such be "is what they say true"?
That's what they say or said about the Eastern European and German immigrants here. At first the immigrants from former Soviet states were full of praise and then, according to my immigrant and Canadian-born sources, both sides formed groups who not only bullied verbally but also engaged in actual fights. The Russians especially, but also the German kids are both are often believed to be more violent than their Canadian-born counterparts. They, on the other hand, claim bullying and teasing by their Canadian-born counterparts.

My father, the son of Russian refugees of the Revolution, in his time, said the same thing, that he was bullied and taunted as a Russlaenda by the grandchildren of the Russlaenda immigrants of the 1800s. In my time immigrants from Paraguay and Mexico were the targets of bullies.

One might be forgiven for thinking nothing changes other than each generation thinks it is the first to suffer.

Hate crimes against Muslim-Canadians more than doubled in 3 years - National | Globalnews.ca
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,961 posts, read 27,397,138 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
The difference between immigrants and refugees fleeing war is that immigrants want to be here and most refugees do not. They want to be back home living their lives in the reality that was Syria before the war when life was pretty good. Many of them came to Canada with their families because they realize that will never happen and they wanted a future for their children who were growing up uneducated.

It's a very very difficult adjustment. From what I've read, the waiting lists were sometimes several months long for English classes. Without speaking passable English, it's hard to even begin integration, have Canadian friends or even get a job. Getting used to an alien culture will take time too.

Then there is the PTSD which I suspect a large number of these refugees, both adults and children, are suffering from. It's been brought up in a number of articles I've read and it doesn't seem to have been addressed much so far. Seeing people being blown up, hearing bombs exploding, dealing with loss of relatives, friends, and neighbors, having everything you've worked for destroyed leaves a mark.

I have read a lot of the stories. One woman when she first came to Canada said her little boy slept under her bed a night. A sponsor told of filling the bird feeder in her backyard with a little boy and how he shrank against her in fear when he saw a plane overhead. A father told of how his son (now 12) was walking home from school in Syria when some soldiers, just for kicks, aimed their tank at him, resulting in him losing his leg. Another father talked about how his children's school was bombed three times before the family fled.

It will take time. Expecting the refugees to integrate in the space of a few months, considering what they have been through is ludicrous.

I had a friend in high school whose parents fled the Hungarian Revolution and came to Canada as refugees. One day I was talking about the types of things I had experienced at summer camp as a kid. I asked her if she had ever been. She said yes, but it was boring. They marched around and saluted the Hungarian flag.

It takes time.

I doubt the Muslim population of Canada will grow to represent a significant part of the Canadian population. The Canadian government just announced that private sponsorship of Syrian refugees will be limited to 1,000 people in 2017. Canada limits the number of privately sponsored Syrian refugee applicants in 2017 - British Columbia - CBC News
Oh the Muslim population will grow quite a bit. Make no mistake. It was growing fast before the Syrian refugees came. They are just a tiny portion of the Muslim growth. In actual fact, many of them were not even Muslim.

Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in Canada.
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