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Old 05-01-2017, 06:09 AM
 
18,263 posts, read 10,362,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
you are not making sense.

The fact Mexicans were allowed to enter unfetted doesn't make it legal, nor does it "it suits just fine". And it definitely doesn't mean America can't start to enforce the law strictly now.

The previous governments were defininitely wrong and irresponsible for not property securing its borders, but it is definitely wrong to enter a country with proper document too - that's why it is called "illegal".

Imagine this: one day you decide to hold a big party in your house welcoming everyone to enter and have a good meal, and invitation optional. Does that mean you don't reserve the right to keep your door shut to uninvited guests tomorrow?

America is still Americans' country. They can choose to let people in "unfettered" when they want, and they can ask them out when they don't like it (if those still remain illegal), and there is nothing wrong with that.
Well Botti that sense I'm not making would be in the eyes of the beholder and in this case, this beholder watched as they were virtually allowed to walk across while being observed doing so. I saw this myself. They were then given jobs by those knowing full well they were illegally in the country, afforded schooling for their children and given driver's licenses along with other benefits.

That would more than adequately satisfy the "suits just fine" accusation for most people.

If you one day throw a party and allow your guests to stay in the guest room without ever asking them to leave and leave that door unlocked with the unspoken understanding being that all those who enter will perhaps be asked to leave at some time (but maybe not) but the door will remain unlocked regardless; you would have encouraged them to continue UNFETTERED.

Certainly it is within the purview of any country to enforce it's border laws but when it does so at it's own convenience, moderating that enforcement to suit the conditions stipulated and requested by the economic desires of those benefitting from them, it's disingenuous in the extreme to suggest this sudden obsession with illegals is anything but political gamesmanship and opportunism, nothing more..

How long would you suggest an illegal situation regarding immigration be tolerated before being addressed with temerity? 50 or more years, or..... ????

No one's debating their right to address the issue. I was responding to that part of your post that singularly admonished "self righteous Liberals" alone. It suited the self interest of "greedy Conservatives" for decades.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
It is not the same thing with NAFTA.

NAFTA is a trade agreement signed by both governments. It is a legally binding document. Neither country did anything illegal.

The fact the US has let in illegal immigrants unfettered for decades doesn't make illegal immigrants legal. And the US can stop allowing them to enter or stay anytime it wants. Actually, any country can abruply stop any immigrants from coming anytime it wants.
I didn't mean literally the same I meant figuratively... Its the softer and more nuanced details that sometimes I find you gloss over in a sort of binary way...

I totally understand that the U.S or any country can abruptly stop immigrants from coming in anytime they want. That all said, I don't know if it is in the interest of the country to allow this to happen. As much as people complain that these people are 'taking' jobs, often they are doing the work that many natives simply don't or wouldn't do. There are many people within the U.S for very practical reasons that do not support mass deportation.

What would happen to the U.S economy if it deported all illegals? Have you analyzed the impact? Has Donald Trump? Has Donald Trump supporters? Would most Donald Trump supporters who are complaining about all the old school type higher paying being eviscerated from the American economy - would they work the jobs many of these illegals do? Fact is, the flow of illegal immigrants into the U.S is on the wane. It was much higher years ago but Mexico is now more prosperous and the flow has been severely curtailed. Part of that is improved domestic situation in Mexico plus the work the Mexican government has been doing from keeping criminal elements out of the U.S.

With all the rhetoric going on - do you really think Donald Trump and his America first rhetoric and solutions are really the solution? I find his approach is divisive and counter productive and will do more harm. That is entirely possible you know. You have a demonstrable problem but the solution applied makes things worse. Doing something different just because something isn't perfect doesn't guarantee improvement and depending on the solution could make things far worse.

Last edited by fusion2; 05-01-2017 at 06:57 PM..
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,166 posts, read 1,749,261 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
With all the rhetoric going on - do you really think Donald Trump and his America first rhetoric and solutions are really the solution?
No, I don't. Mr. Trump's rhetoric may play well to out-of-work coal miners and out-of-work assembly line folks, but he has made it clear to those of us who are constitutional scholars that he really doesn't understand how the US government works.

Trump must have thought that as President, he would be a King or a Dictator. Sadly, he has no clue about how the US Constitution works, about the separation of powers, about common-law. His supporters shout for "originalism" in the Constitution, yet they conveniently forget (or are ignorant of) the fact that the US is a common-law country, where legal precedent rules, where constitutional law is shaped by previous precedents, and where we cannot wipe the slate clean when it comes to SCOTUS decisions, because of that pesky stare decisis stuff. Common law, in other words.

If Mr. Trump tried to be an originalist--well, then, he'd be a European. Europeans use civil law (not common law), and interpret everything through their legal codes, without precedent to guide them. If, as has been suggested by some of his supporters, we trash 140 years of SCOTUS decisions (since Marbury v. Madison) and follow the strict wording of the US Constitution, I somehow doubt that Mr. Trump or his supporters would like to be seen as following a European system of decisions based on strict legislative wording, decided by a judge. That's a European civil law system, after all. Americans, used to a common-law system based on legal precedent, won't go for that.

I'm of the opinion that the US Constitution will win this battle. The US Constitution has lasted for over 200 years, and will likely last for another 200 years, and more. They key is to look at it as a "living tree," as Constitutional scholars call it. Mr. Trump's supporters do not like this approach, but it is a fact that the US Constitution has been shaped and defined by the courts through its history, and it is a "living tree." Miranda v. Arizona, Gideon v. Wainwright, Brown v. Board of Education--these are not just decisions; they, and other decisions, give Americans the legal and civil rights they enjoy today, under the US Constitution. How many Americans feel they deserve a court-appointed lawyer? Thank Mr. Gideon. How many Americans want their rights read upon arrest? Thank Mr. Miranda. How many Americans, of any colour, want their children to go to the closest school? Thank Brown.

None of these rights, as we regard them today, existed before 1950. It took the SCOTUS a long, hard look at the 6th, 5th, and 14th Amendments (respectively), before they made sure that all Americans had the right to a lawyer in criminal matters, the right to silence upon arrest, and the right to send their kids to the local school.

It is axiomatic, in constitutional law studies, that "no law can trump [no pun intended] the Constitution." No matter what Mr. Trump does, no matter how many EOs he signs, he cannot get around the checks and balances on his power, the common-law, and the judiciary and Congress, as outlined in the US Constitution. If he thought otherwise--well, then, he is truly a fool.

'Nuff said for now.
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Old 05-02-2017, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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^^^

Well not just about the law or the Constitution but even regarding U.S history.

Trump gets Andrew Jackson and Civil War totally wrong (opinion) - CNN.com

Needless to say, he'll seemingly have that 35 to 40 percent base support that will follow him to the end like a bunch of lemmings..
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Loblaw sees food prices moderating this year

Quote:
TORONTO - Canada's biggest grocery and pharmacy owner said Wednesday it anticipates competition between supermarket chains will be fierce this year as food prices continue to stay low.

Food prices in March fell 1.9 per cent compared with a year ago as Statistics Canada's overall consumer price index for the same month rose 1.6 per cent from a year earlier, following a 2.0 gain in February.
Compared with a year earlier, the cost of fresh fruit dropped 12.4 per cent while fresh vegetable prices fell 10.2 per cent.
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:36 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,213 posts, read 6,570,009 times
Reputation: 14123
Default BC Fire Chief believed swept away in flood

I hope this man is found alive and safe. That was a huge storm that went through last night.


Cache Creek fire chief believed swept away in fast-moving creek


Quote:

A search is underway for the Cache Creek fire chief after he was reportedly swept away in swift water Friday morning.

******** RCMP and Kamloops Search and Rescue are conducting a massive search for chief Clayton Cassidy, who is believed to have been swept away while checking on some fast-moving creeks east of the village near the Brookside Campgound at 3 a.m.

RCMP say his vehicle was found in the area.

“Currently, an extensive ground and waters’ edge search is underway. (Cassidy) is considered as missing,” said RCMP Cpl. Dan Moskaluk.

Kamloops Search and Rescue manager Alan Hobler says his crew was called to the area at 9 a.m.

“We have about 12 members out searching, a helicopter up looking along with a flood rescue crew and our canine team,” said Hobler. “We will be sending out search drones as well.”

The Thompson-Nicola region, which includes Cache Creek and Kamloops, was hit with thunderstorms Thursday night. The deluge caused several already-swollen creeks to burst their banks.


.... continued .....

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Old 05-07-2017, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Been unseasonably cold and rainy (though that has subsided in T.O) but not nearly as bad as Montreal..

City of Montreal declares state of emergency from flooding

Quote:
The city of Montreal declared a state of emergency on Sunday afternoon as floodwaters spread from torrential rains that have lashed the city since early on Friday, causing the worst flooding in decades, city officials said.
The state of emergency, which gives firefighters extra resources to battle the flooding, will be in place for 48 hours and the situation will be reviewed afterward. The city of Montreal said in a statement that it would take several days for the situation to get back to normal.
Across the Canadian province of Quebec, 126 municipalities are now considered part of flood zones, and the number of homes hit by flooding is in the thousands, CBC News reported on Sunday.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,670 posts, read 8,740,385 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Been unseasonably cold and rainy (though that has subsided in T.O) but not nearly as bad as Montreal..

City of Montreal declares state of emergency from flooding
I hope Acajack is OK in Gatineau !

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...lood-1.4103689
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Old 05-07-2017, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I hope so too!
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:46 PM
 
18,263 posts, read 10,362,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I hope so too!
My heart goes out to all those in low lying areas. Having been flooded once many years ago from failed sump pumps I can empathize with anyone going through that.
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